I may not be a general or anything, but wouldn't knowing that a Japanese attack on Pearl was imminent be a strategic advantage? So they could, you know, set a trap or something, rather than have half the Pacific fleet sent to the bottom of the sea?
7/19/2009 12:50:11 PM
And an even bigger mystery, shock, horror, why do you think anyone would believe you?
7/19/2009 1:27:54 PM
You of course fail to realise that the US would still get drawn into the war if Pearl Harbor had been a massive victory for them.
7/19/2009 3:00:54 PM
"Pearl was known in advance"
"much like on 9/11 there was an active effort to stand down and allow the attack to go ahead."
Actually if you knew anything about the 9/11 attacks, you'd know that our fighter pilots tried desperately to reach the planes in time before they crashed but they were too late. Even if they were given the order to shoot down the planes they wouldn't have been able to.
"It served the purpose then of dragging the US into WW2 and 9/11 as most know served its purpose of creating the boondoggle of “The War on Terror”."
Intelligence failures and poor communication between U.S. agencies? Impossible. A sinister cadre of politicians allowing America to be attacked for political and economic gain? Oh, totally.
7/19/2009 3:20:28 PM
The Pearl Harbor stuff is bullshit.
As for 9/11, in spite of the fact that Bush and Cheney used it after the fact to justify going into Iraq, which they intended to do before they stole the White House, they did not know in advance. To the contrary, Bush and Rice repeatedly threw intelligence peopel out of their offce when they tried to tell them some sort attack was imminent, because they only wanted to hear about Iraq. Had they had the specific information about the 9/11 attack, you can damn well bet they would have done whatever they could to thwart it, so they could bang their chests and brag to the American people about how they'd saved us all from destruction. They could then still have used the attacks to justify the "War on Terror", without having had the PR nightmare of the having attack occur on their watch when they had ignored the warnings.
7/19/2009 5:11:38 PM
So, if they knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, then why didn't they put the troops there on high alert? I can understand not attacking first due to the possibility that they were wrong, but why the FUCK would we let a massive portion of the Pacific fleet be destroyed simply to have an excuse to go to war when there still would have been the exact same excuse if we were prepared?
7/19/2009 8:50:20 PM
Your opinion makes no sense from political or military POV.
7/20/2009 12:09:49 AM
Conventional navel wisdom was that tiny aircraft could not damage battleships :-( Oops they got that wrong.
US Intelligence knew an attack was imminent but they did not know when it would happen and did not think it would cause much damage.
They knew the Japanese fleet was steaming towards the American coastline and that they were observing radio silence. Intercepted diplomatic messages indicated a bombing raid would occur on US territory , that could have been from Alaska to California the Philippines or Hawaii.
To make this public knowledge would have exposed their code breaking ability if they informed anyone about it.
A classic catch 22.
Similar with 9/11 US intelligence knew something was going to happen but not when or where. They vastly underestimated the scale of the attack.
7/20/2009 5:17:17 AM
And one of the world's great mysteries is: why would anyone listen to the load of bollocks spewed by tinfoil hat-wearers?
Pearl Harbour? 9/11? Two Words:
7/20/2009 6:56:32 AM
@Anon-e-moose - Right on dude/tte!
I really can't stand these people. Especially Alex Jones where he one time harrased a pair of Marines about 9/11 and the war in Iraq as if they were in the command room in the Pentagon organizing the events. What's worse is Alex Jone's legion of followers that refuse to accept the simple reality of things that happen in the world. They think they are so smart and observent about the world when in reality they are uneducated and paranoid.
7/20/2009 8:39:53 AM
Well, Graham, I can't say I trust the NSA any less than I trust you, who spouts off wild claims with no facts to back them up.
7/20/2009 10:38:30 AM
"It served the purpose then of dragging the US into WW2"
Why would they need that to go to war with the Axis powers in WWII? They were actively conquering the world; wouldn't that have been enough reason to fight them by itself?
7/21/2009 1:37:06 PM
In the early part of the war most Americans saw the Nazi's as Europe's problem and the Japanese as Asia's problem, and were dead set against getting involved.
7/23/2009 5:57:12 AM
"Pearl was known in advance"
As others have pointed out evidence based on their reaction is to the contrary.
"9/11 as most know served its purpose of creating the boondoggle of “The War on Terror”"
Seriously Bush and Cheney were not smart enough to set up something that elaborate. Though they do nothing against the myth that makes them look like evil geniuses instead of bumbling morons!
Seriously Graham American military intelligence is not fucking omniscient and other countries are not exactly lacking in stealth and counterintelligence of their own! Take your head out of your ass and learn that sometimes America does get outwitted, outmaneuvered or outright beaten.
Shit happens, doesn't matter how good your security is.
7/23/2009 7:38:10 AM
As I understand it, there was this deep blue wet thing that isolated us from Japan. And that our military was prepared to fight the previous war, not some far flung island-hopping campaign against an enemy that had already conquered most of Asia.
As to 9/11, W and his cohorts ignored all warnings about an impending attack.
So why blame the NSA? It is an intelligence gathering organization. It has no power to make war or arrest bad guys.
Please try not to talk out of your ass.
7/23/2009 11:29:07 PM
If the US had wanted to enter WWII they would have done it. Thats the point, they DIDN'T want to enter the war, and it took a direct attack on them to spur them into action.
7/28/2009 8:39:43 PM