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Quote# 64134

Libraries are a nice "end." I think libraries are great. But ends cannot be divorced from means. And the means of any public library is tax dollars -- dollars that were extorted under the principle of "Your money or your life." Pay your tax or go to jail. Nothing about them is free. Understand that while the driving force of the private sector is the creation of value, the driving force of libraries is the destruction of value. People are forced, if not at the point of a gun, then at the threat of the point of the gun, to pay for libraries whether or not they want to. And the difference between what they wanted to buy with their money and the library that they are forcibly stuck with is a destruction of value. Not only that, but the difference between the excellent private libraries that would probably exist if the market weren't flooded by inferior government libraries is a further loss of value.

Public libraries, as institutions that destroy value, destroy in some small way our ability to live our lives to the fullest. They represent houses of death and should be spat upon and cursed in the most creative language possible.

Public libraries are a scourge because they masquerade as a benevolent government program, a program that seemingly only the most extreme radical could oppose. Educate the public. Provide "free" books, movies, CDs, and Internet connections to anyone who wants or needs them. Provide reference material and disseminate knowledge to the public. Combat illiteracy. In short, public libraries supposedly better society and make the world a nicer place for everyone. And if public libraries are so great, then why not a public "this" or public "that," by extension?

Public libraries are at the heart of statism and the destruction of individual rights. They embody the premise that government can create value. But force cannot create. Wealth cannot be legislated. The truth is that aside from protecting individual rights, government can do nothing but destroy value at the point of the gun.

Jeff Landauer, Rebirth of Reason 77 Comments [7/20/2009 6:20:43 AM]
Fundie Index: 46
WTF?! || meh
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D Laurier.

What the fuck?

Does this idiot not know that public librarys are mainly funded by private donations and sponsorship?

7/20/2009 6:55:21 AM



It probably doesn't matter, Libertarians would bitch and moan if a single tax dollar went into the libraries.

Their standard claim, as shown in the qoute, is that the money was coerced from the people against said people's will, ignoring that they are an extreme minority and that most voters are in favor of libraries and other government works.

7/20/2009 7:16:57 AM

Jedi Knight

Jeff, I invite you to come to Norway, just so our public libraries, health care, broadcasting and schools can scare the shit out of you. You seem to be full of it...

7/20/2009 8:05:54 AM

Nathan the Wise

Have no government, then. Seems to be working well in Somalia.

7/20/2009 8:14:17 AM

Lucilius

How do these fucktards think we got libraries and pretty much every other government service – through order of the Evil Lord Xenu?

A bunch of people said, "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we all chipped in and got lots of books to share? Everybody up for that? Let's vote, or at least vote for candidates who are for or against the idea. Pro-library people win? OK, here we go." Oversimplified, I know, but essentially true: All this stuff was set up because people fucking asked for it, and got their neighbors to agree.

These clowns have no sense of history, or any real idea of how the world works, I tell ya ....

7/20/2009 8:20:07 AM

Churchy La Femme

"And if public libraries are so great, then why not a public "this" or public "that," by extension? "

You mean things like public roads, public parks, public sidewalks, public schools, public snow removal (at least around here)?

Feel free to set up your own private, pay-for-use library to compete with the inferior public ones. As with all markets, if you provide a superior product, people will be willing to buy it.

7/20/2009 8:25:31 AM

Kat

Okay, the term public does not exactly always mean federal government backed or tax-payer backed.

Were you ever forced to get a book out of the public library? Then what is your true problem? You think that libraries would somehow get better if they were actually buisnesses competing for customers instead of what they are now?

Right, but you do realize there are such a thing as book stores? So if you don't want to get a book from a library, you can make yourself feel better by going to a bookstore and buying a book there.

7/20/2009 8:48:33 AM

Seeker in the Dark

There's already such a thing as "private libraries". They're called bookstores, and they charge for the books, as opposed to public libraries. See? So much whining about a non-issue, when the "solution" (and I use the term very loosely here) is right under your nose... But then you would complain that they shouldn't charge a price for their books, I guess...

Edit: Beaten by a highly skilled ninja named Kat!

7/20/2009 8:53:17 AM

aaa

Pay your taxes and stop whining, you libertarian idiot.

7/20/2009 9:18:11 AM

S

This guy is kinda stupid. But there's nothing here like a conspiracy theory. He's just an extreme libertarian. *yawn* How boring.

7/20/2009 9:37:32 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

You vote, don't you? That means you have just as much say in what your, and everyone elses, taxes pay for as anyone else. That's as fair as any society's yet managed to get and still have a functioning government.

These clowns have no sense of history, or any real idea of how the world works, I tell ya ....

What they really lack is a sense of society, of collective will or responsibility - it's simply them against everyone else on the planet (though they often make an exception for close family). Where it gets really insane is when the ultra-libertarians / anarchists say they could always choose to pool their resources and form a group of like-minded individuals in order to reap the benefits of specialisation and economy of scale, abiding by rules commonly accepted to be necessary to the functioning of the agreement, to achieve things a single individual could not possibly hope to achieve; but then simply cannot, or refuse to, grasp the notion that most modern democratic governments, ultimately, are an attempt to do exactly the same thing.

7/20/2009 9:49:21 AM

Pule Thamex

Your 'self' is an unimportant and miniscule blip in the cosmos, and yet at the same time it is important in an ethical and evolutionary sense. Your overbearing and inflated ego is suited to its solitary existence in the barren wastelands of what passes for your arid mind. At the same time, it is an inconsequential and gibbering pipsqueak amongst many billions of other egos.

To put it another way, you are like an unspeakably smelly and unpleasant fart blown in everyone's direction on the swirling winds of the internet.

7/20/2009 10:00:28 AM

Dr. Novakaine

So, Jeff, your ideal society is one where only people with money can be educated? Because without public institutions, that is how it will be. The rich get richer, the poor get nothing, and you sit on your balcony and comment about how nice everything is.

7/20/2009 10:47:50 AM

Dio Fa

Shut up, you ignorant Friedman wannabe.

7/20/2009 10:54:28 AM

jadehawk

fucking libertarians

7/20/2009 1:03:58 PM



This is really getting to be a major form of mental illness in the US.

Hey, fucktard, you can also thank the evils of taxes and the oh, so incompetent government for bringing you the NIH (medical research), the postal service, your beloved military, the VA, the FDA, the national park sysytem, NASA, and the Social Security and Medicare that keep your parents and grandparents alive (barely, thanks to Republican cuts). Yeah, your idea of dismantling all of that would be a much better way to go.

7/20/2009 2:48:58 PM

Chancellor Gorkon

Libraries?!?
Are you COMPLETELY out of things to bitch about?

7/20/2009 2:53:15 PM

Antichrist

Awww.......

Is little pookums pissed that his mommy and teachers taught him how to read?

Suck it up asshole, I'd rather my tax dollars went to libraries, healthcare, and fire fighting, rather than stupid Olympic parties for Campbell and his friends.

And S is right, as fucked up as this is, it's not really a conspiracy theory. Maybe it belongs in FSTDT.

7/20/2009 3:33:02 PM

jsonitsac

@antichrist

I don't know if it belongs in the fundies section since this guy doesn't have a religious motive. Maybe we need a new archive, free market fundies say the darndest things?

7/20/2009 3:53:01 PM

Lucilius

@jsonitsac: Not just free-marketers, but various antigovernment kooks like militias and Confederate apologists who aren't explicit racists - people like Gov. Goodhair.

7/20/2009 4:15:29 PM

Barikada

"Roads are a nice "end." I think roads are great. But ends cannot be divorced from means. And the means of any public road is tax dollars -- dollars that were extorted under the principle of "Your money or your life." Pay your tax or go to jail. Nothing about them is free. Understand that while the driving force of the private sector is the creation of value, the driving force of roads is the destruction of value. People are forced, if not at the point of a gun, then at the threat of the point of the gun, to pay for roads whether or not they want to. And the difference between what they wanted to buy with their money and the road that they are forcibly stuck with is a destruction of value. Not only that, but the difference between the excellent private roads that would probably exist if the market weren't flooded by inferior government roads is a further loss of value."

Mhm.

7/20/2009 5:10:49 PM

shykid

This goes in FSTDT. Not a conspiracy theory, but definitely a free-market fundie.

7/20/2009 6:23:34 PM

JonnyTruant

And I suppose he wants private road systems, too? I want to see what he thinks of the value of paying a toll to a for-profit road every time he turned at an intersection, or had to deal with the cost of repairs from driving on co-op roads.

Privately held fire protection? I want to see him haggle over the cost of saving his home. How about police protection?

Public funding does add value to all our lives. You don't want to pay for it? Fine, go up north, build an igloo and live off the land. Nothing else is free.

7/20/2009 7:09:09 PM

Zoo

Well, never mind my comment, you already "destroyed" those arguments. Here's the short version then: you don't get it.

7/20/2009 7:28:24 PM



Private libraries do exist, although they tend to be on private university campuses, specialized research institutions, or monasteries. I've never heard of a for-profit library. Most libraries, public or private, will allow non-members to come in and use their materials for free, if you want to check it out books you'd have to pay to be a member or meet some other requirement.

Also, comparing libraries to book stores is the same as comparing apples to oranges. Book stores exist for people to get specific books, while libraries act as archives of books. Chances are the top best seller will be heavily stocked in the local Barnes & Noble, but there would be waiting lists at the public library. However, if you're just interested in reading a book, but not a specific one, a library is a better bet. Likewise, if you're conducting research you'll rarely goto a book store unless there is a classic book that you absolutely need to have that is just so vital to your topic. Although if a book like that exists, chances are it's already in a library.

7/20/2009 8:01:09 PM
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