MangoMantra #fundie

MangoMantra #fundie answers.yahoo.com

Well they are all pretty much the same thing. In case you didn't know communism is based on Karl Marx's (marxism) The Communist Manifesto. And socialism is pretty much the same thing. The latter types of government interfere with every single aspect of life; education, health, etc. Obama is a Fascist, he wants complete government control. I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. Libertarians believe that government should stay out of people's lives--less government, more freedom. Government help is not always the solution, is usually the problem.

42 comments

old comment by Lord X

The FSTDT definition of fundie is as follows:

Fundie

1. A usually religious person or entity characterized by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses instead of valid argument.

It should be noted that one can be religious--even a fundamentalist--but not actually attain the vaunted status of "fundie," which needs that special touch only people fitting stereotypical caricatures can provide. Additionally, religion is technically not even a pre-requisite for this, although blind adherence to its ideologies (and those of politics) is perhaps the #1 source of fundies in the universe. Rigid, arrogant, "know-it-all-and-confidently-force-it-on-everyone-else" authoritarian strains of both amplify the propensity to fundyism, while more moderate, "this-seems-like-a-good-idea-but-might-be-wrong, so-let's-not-be-total-jackasses-about-it" varieties can keep it in check or even undermine it.

Note the line "...Religion is technically not a prerequisite for this..." meaning that not all fundies are religious fundies.

old comment by

Wrong on so many levels.

1. The term communism preceded Marx, Marx developed a communist theory of political economy known thereafter as Marxism which became the basis for later communist ideologies like Leninism, Trotskyism and Maoism.
2. Socialism =/= communism. Socialism also precedes Marx, it refers to a means of distributing goods and services, not a political ideology. It's also not necessarily statist, plenty of Anarchists have socialistic beliefs - they just think the community rather than the government should distribute the goods and services.
3. Fascism is an ideology which opposes liberalism, communism, individualism and rationalism to the extent that a fascist state will try to stamp these ideologies out completely by incacerating or executing their proponents. Whatever Obama is, he aint that.

Before you start telling us what your ideology is, at least understand what you are opposing. By the looks of it you wouldn't have a bloody clue.

Tolpuddle Martyr wrote this and forgot to type in his username.

old comment by Brain_In_A_Jar

Lots of socialists, though by no means all, also oppose large, authoritarian governments. The conditions for the establishment of socialism are remarkably similar to those for the establishment of ultra-libertarianism or "objectivism," and also for the descent into total anarchy, out of which just about any other regime, usually a bad one, could subsequently rise.

What determines which of the above you end up with is not the act of removing the government, but the state of the people at the time. If they're a bunch of selfish jerks who don't give a fuck about anyone else, you get ultra-libertarianism. If they also don't give a fuck about the functioning or wellbeing of society as a whole, you get anarchy. You only get socialism if people have both a social awareness and some sense of social responsibility before the existing government comes down.

I think I'm right in saying that communism was originally intended to be an intermediate stage to get people into the right frame of mind to guarantee the rise of socialism, rather than a regression to pre-capitalistic anarchy, once the government vanished; the catch is that governments typically don't like to self-destruct, even for a good reason, much the same way a single person wouldn't.

old comment by Orion

"In case you didn't know communism is based on Karl Marx's (marxism) The Communist Manifesto."

Statement of the fucking obvious award!

"And socialism is pretty much the same thing."

Except not. Only thicker people seem to confuse the two terms. Basically dooming any socialist concept in the USA due to association with "reds". So long public healthcare system.

"The latter types of government interfere with every single aspect of life; education, health, etc."

Wrong. That's a totalitarian state, while a totalitarian state can be a communist or socialist one, it can also be capitalist.

"Obama is a Fascist, he wants complete government control."

1. Unrelated to previous statement.
2. Evidence?
3. No, attempting to establish a public healthcare system is not fascist.

"Libertarians believe that government should stay out of people's lives--less government, more freedom."

Not always true. Read Snow Crash, fun book, all about a near-future America where capitalism and libertarianism have become such powerful ideas that there is no govt restriction or public enterprise, businesses run everything and even print their own currencies. Some things are good about this world, others, not so much.

"Government help is not always the solution"

Another captain obvious award for MangoMantra, nothing is ever always the solution.

"is usually the problem."

It can be. But I look at the countries with the best living standards, lowest poverty rates and biggest Human Development Indexes and I see the high-taxed and highly socialistic nations like Sweden, the Netherlands and even Australia.

old comment by Swedish Pagan

The "interference" with every single aspect of life, that's just to make sure that everyone has as much education, health service, food and shelter as they need.

First you talk about communism, then socialism (not the same thing as communism by the way, just as conervatism and liberalism are not "pretty much the same thing"). Then all of a sudden we are on the other side of the political spectrum, the ultra right, with the accusation that Obama is a Fascist. How did we get there?

Less government leads to more freedom, yeah maybe. More freedom to die of starvation in one of the world's riches countries, freedom to die of treatable diseases in the same rich country, freedom to not be able to feed or clothe your children, freedom to not go to school as it's too expensive, and so on and so forth.
I'd rather have some amount of government control, so that everyone gets food, shelter, health care and education.

@Orion
But I look at the countries with the best living standards, lowest poverty rates and biggest Human Development Indexes and I see the high-taxed and highly socialistic nations like Sweden, the Netherlands and even Australia.
Sadly our present government (conservative/liberal/chistian coalition) are trying to copy the American Way. We now have beggars on the streets, homeless people, people who can't afford to go to the dentist. And they managed to get thousands of people to leave the trade unions, just before the Financial Crisis. Progress? Not so much...

old comment by Vince

so when your starving and homeless, dieing of a disease no one will cure you of. I'm going to wave every single thing you stupidly said you didn't want in your face. health care, welfare, schools. all the "government interference" you didn't want.

I've seen it before, you bitch and whine about the government staying out of your life, then as soon as you need something your the first to bitch and whine about the government not helping.

a quick word about how a "society" works. it protects and feeds you while you and all the other good little worker ants keep it going. you don't get a free ride, stop bitching lest you get deported, like you should be.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"Well they are all pretty much the same thing. In case you didn't know communism is based on Karl Marx's (marxism) The Communist Manifesto. And socialism is pretty much the same thing. The latter types of government interfere with every single aspect of life; education, health, etc. Obama is a Fascist, he wants complete government control. I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. Libertarians believe that government should stay out of people's lives--less government, more freedom. Government help is not always the solution, is usually the problem."

This worldwide recession, created by the God Emperor of Fucking Up, George Dumbya Bush (PROTIP: the Repubicans are all for 'small government' too); also conclusively proving the ultimate FAIL of pure, unfettered Capitalism (thus Karl Marx was proven right all along). Yet, he - and the US - have been beaten at their own financial game by China - a Communist country. Norway is a Social democracy; welfare up to the eyeballs. Yet, they were effectively the only country to emerge out of this unholy mess of a recession virtually unscathed. Pop quiz, hotshot:

Why?

Take your time, I know it can be a difficult question to answer for the hard of thinking such as you, Mango.

@#998083

'Obama is a Fascist, he wants complete government control.'

"Can you give me specific examples of him saying this?

Do I hear crickets?"

With the occasional squawk of vultures in the distance; arguing over themselves over the last few remotely edible scraps as they pick clean the bones of the corpse of Mango's argument. With a tumbleweed or two rolling by in the wind.

old comment by Ebon

And socialism is pretty much the same thing

No, it isn't. Socialism is a different system that predates Marx by over a century.

The latter types of government interfere with every single aspect of life

No, that's a lie. The end result of Marxism would be no government at all.

Obama is a Fascist

Fascism and communism are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, idiot. Fascism is on the far-right (yes it is, Glenn Beck was lying to you), Communism is on the far-left and it's impossible to be both. Oh, and Obama is neither.

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian

Which means you're an ultraright-fringe Republican who worships money but wants protection from his slaves.

MangoMantra #fundie answers.yahoo.com

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