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Quote# 64287

Biblically speaking there is a man – somewhere in the Old Testament - who went spilling his seed onto the ground and was promptly cursed for that. Contraception is just that – spilling good seed onto the ground. This is the reason why we are facing hunger, wars and strange diseases i.e. we are drinking from the cup of Gods wrath

God, in his infinite wisdom created a natural system of checks and balances and mans attempts to play God can only lead to disaster. There is enough in this world for everyones need but not nearly enough for everybody's greed. I must jeer at economic arguments for contraception.

From a traditional point of view, contraception is alien and unnatural. Children are a gift and belong to society… they are a sign of bounty, good tidings, continuity and wealth. They are blessings. There are natural methods of family planning that do not involve contraception and they have been used since time immemorial.

OR, Mashada Forums 72 Comments [7/27/2009 5:51:16 PM]
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Actually, one of the reasons you are facing hunger, wars and strange diseases is overpopulation, but I wouldn't expect a fundie to be able to figure that out.

7/27/2009 5:55:34 PM



What an idiot. I do agree with one point though. "There is enough in this world for everyones need but not nearly enough for everybody's greed."

7/27/2009 6:03:07 PM

Mitch

"Every sperm is sacred"

No, if they were so sacred, God would've made enough eggs for all the sperm to fertilise!

We evolved to have long lives, make big costly young and not have them die, rather than have millions that die from gusty wind. Its called life history strategies.

Secondly, Onan got in trouble for being irresponsible and lying, and the social situation at the time and what was written was only relevant to civilisation back then.

7/27/2009 6:05:29 PM

sandmantate

Well you're going to hate me in about 15 minutes.

Also, what were those natural methods of family planning?

7/27/2009 6:10:58 PM

RPJ

Famine and wars are because we don't have enough children! We have as many resources as we need to take care of all the children we can possibly shove out, but we don't have enough to take care of nonexistent babies!

7/27/2009 6:15:41 PM

Vince

statistically, we now have less war and disease then ever.

and the number one cause of hunger is overpopulation.

kinna bit yourself in the ass there huh.

7/27/2009 6:19:30 PM

EllwyenDarwin

"There is enough in this world for everyones needs"

Tell that to the starving in Africa.

7/27/2009 6:21:33 PM





Not too long ago, when contraception was illegal, we had MORE disease than we have now. Ever hear of Smallpox or Plague? We also had wars, death, and destruction aplenty.

And hunger is caused primarily by overpoulation. After the Plague wiped out huge portions of the population of Europe in the Middle Ages, the survivors got a marked improvement in nutrition, includinmg fruits and vegetables, which had previously only been available to the wealthy. With so many people gone, prices on both produce and farmland came down, so more people finally got to eat decently for a change.


7/27/2009 6:27:04 PM

Blue J

Way to totally miss the point of the story...

Onan (Genesis 38:8) was asked by his father to have sex with his brother's widow to produce a child who would then be raised as his brother's son. Onan wanted his brother's name to die out, so he pulled out and "spilled his seed" on the ground. God was very angry that Onan didn't want to continue on his brother's line, so God killed him.

People who claim that the story of Onan is somehow a universal mandate against contraception are totally missing the point.

7/27/2009 6:27:21 PM

Mitch

@ Blue J,

Exactly, irresponsibility towards family.

See, unlike modern times today (except in very classical communities in asian countries), family line is very important. It comes from instinctive notions to have the largest possible amount of DNA moving on to the next generation.

This does not mean to have lots of children though, for example, if you had a disease that was definately going to be inherited by your child that cuts the lifespan to a point before they can reproduce, it is more like that a person will take an interested in their siblings etc. having children so that related genes will be passed through to nephews and nieces because that's probably the next highest amount of gene conservation into the next generation and beyond.

Okay... A bit off track, but in general, the name kind of replaced the genes in importance on a conscious level, I'm sure Onan would've gladly kept in if she took his name.

7/27/2009 6:35:49 PM

enna

Oh Gawd. Really?

Ahahahahaha completely wrong on all counts

7/27/2009 6:49:30 PM

JonnyTruant

You might note that one of the balances is that when a population becomes greater than its food source, there will be death by starvation.

Hunger.

When resources such as food, water, or arable land become scarce, it's normal for one socio-economic group of humans to make war on another socio-economic group to protect their resources or secure new ones. This is not good, but it is normal.

War.

When populations become too dense, and resources become too scarce, disease becomes common and rampant. The poor, living in the most cramped areas and with the least access to good food and hygiene are most susceptible, allowing for the rapid transmission of disease and death due to a lack of health care. Furthermore, such conditions allow for the development of new diseases which would ordinarily not take hold in a healthy population.

Disease.


Looks like your "cup of god's wrath" is the very overpopulation you're railing against. Help reduce the problems and nail yourself onto a cross. It's what jesus would do!


Oh! And children belong to a society? How can you reconcile that with the anti-socialism/communism stance you fundies defend so viciously?

7/27/2009 7:07:56 PM

Misty

You need to loosen up a bit! May I suggest masturbation?

7/27/2009 7:09:51 PM

JonnyTruant

@ sandmantate There are four methods of ancient family planning I can think of off the top of my head.

Abstinence - no fun, not practiced with any reliability by any population EVER.

rhythm method - as old as the monthly cycle. You're still wasting sperm when it works, so I don't see the difference between that and any other form. The problem, of course, is that it doesn't work all that well.

condoms - made from animal intestines or other tissues, these have been in use since Roman times, if not earlier.

pennyroyal tea - pennyroyal is known for forcing a woman's period. So in the early stages of pregnancy, the use of pennyroyal will flush the little darling out. It's been used all throughout the middle east and semitic tribes for millenia, and it's the most natural form of abortion available. Yes, abortion, since it prematurely ends a pregnancy. So much for moral high ground.

7/27/2009 7:15:51 PM



Wait...
What I'm getting out of this (with some intentional misinterpretation, I assume), is that there are too many greedy people, therefore contraception is bad. Ignoring the religious part of the arguement (which may actually be something important that I'm skipping out on).

7/27/2009 7:16:01 PM

JonnyTruant

Sorry - refreshed. =(

7/27/2009 7:18:31 PM

GodotIsWaiting4U

Onan.

Also, we're dealing with hunger because the world population exceeds its allowable food production, and diseases because people aren't USING CONTRACEPTION TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM DISEASES. In other words, those problems stem not from USE of contraception, but from NON-USE.

7/27/2009 7:39:36 PM

Papabear

Don't try to cite a biblical reference until you know what you are citing and where it is in the Bible. To do otherwise is pathetic.

Your logic, too, is pathetic. Too few people is not a reason for war, strange diseases, and certainly not hunger.

Children can indeed seem like a gift, but we are not required to accept every gift offered.

7/27/2009 7:51:42 PM

Tolpuddle Martyr

"There are natural methods of family planning that do not involve contraception and they have been used since time immemorial."

Harken, is that the "plop, plop" of seed being spilt on the ground?

7/27/2009 7:54:54 PM



"Biblically speaking there is a man – somewhere in the Old Testament - who went spilling his seed onto the ground and was promptly cursed for that."

What was his name? Preaching the Bible to people is ridiculous if you don't even know the damn thing.It only makes you look stupid.

7/27/2009 7:57:26 PM

rubber chicken

@ellwyn darwin.

It may interest you to know that Africa is a net exporter of foodstuffs, (almost entirely to western, first world countrys), often such commodities as Coffee or Tea. These commodities frequently take up the most productive agricultural lands and generate foreign capital to enable the local governments to buy such socially useful products as Limousines or Jet Fighters.
There is a reasonably good arguement that most of the starvation in Africa is caused by the western desire for more than 200 differnet blends of coffee on their supermarket shelves.

7/27/2009 8:25:23 PM

hmcook87

Sigh. Onan was cursed because god told him to impregnate his dead brothers wife and he (being a man of moral integrity) didn't want to do it. So at the last moment, he ejaculated on the ground hoping god wasn't watching. God was watching of course (the perv) and cursed him for disobedience.

It is NOT an argument against masturbation. It is NOT an argument against contraception. It simply means one should follow whatever god says, even if it means doing what you know is wrong. Some moral teaching...

7/27/2009 8:28:27 PM



From what I remember, he was cursed for refusing to impregnate his dead brother's wife, not for pulling out early.

But it seems I understand the bible much more than you.

EDIT: Wife, not sister. XD

7/27/2009 8:28:54 PM

Fdragon

The more you have the more mouths you have to feed. That is one of the reasons I am not breeding. I am not going to contribute to the problem.

7/27/2009 8:58:06 PM

Equalist

I have to agree with one thing here. There are natural checks and balances when it comes to reproduction. It's called homosexuality.

7/27/2009 9:26:37 PM
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