I just hope that the moral Americans fight tooth and nail for healthcare reform. Get it passed! Now! As soon as healthcare reform gets passed, with a public option, the Republican Party as we know it will die a quick and very painful death :D

8/22/2009 10:04:07 PM

katie5000

They've basically summed up the current situation; they just forgot to swap out "government" with "private insurer/HMO".

#1: So what?
#2: You can keep your current doctor when you change HMO's only IF s/he's on the new HMO's roster. If not, then tough titties.
#3: Which probably won't happen.
#4: I wonder what people from other countries actually have to say about this. :|
#5 and #6: As if insurance company hacks don't do this already??
#7: This is probably the sanest thing you've said all post. Not that I necessarily agree, just that I can see that it's quite possible.
#8: What would be so bad about being FORCED to have health insurance (unless you couldn't pay for it, of course)? Many states require drivers to have auto insurance before they can legally operate a vehicle. Frankly, I'd WANT to have health insurance and would be more than happy if someone showed up and said "you need to have health insurance, here's a government-sponsored program that you can sign up for if you can't afford to go private, we'll take care of it for you".
#9: they're ELECTIVE abortions, which means that you can CHOOSE whether or not you want to have one. IF you do choose to get one, then the medical procedure will be covered. BIG EFFIN' DEAL.

You know, these people are the people who keep Americans from having good things.

8/22/2009 10:20:50 PM

Porky Pine

At least there were a couple of Canadians on that thread that were demanding a retraction.

8/22/2009 10:28:26 PM

ChristPuncher

I live in Canada
If that were true I wouldn't be here

...EPIC FAIL

8/22/2009 10:29:06 PM

Equalist

#1) A National Health identification card will be issued to all Americans.

You mean like the social security cards we already have?

#2) You can keep your current doctor IF the government medical boards allow it.

Just like current insurance companies often require you to only see doctors within their network?

#3) You can keep your current insurance IF your insurance company does not go out of business because they can't compete with the new government-backed alternative.

VS. all the people that currently don't have insurance at all because they can't afford to shell out what it costs to keep the insurance companies making billions right now.

#4) Virtually everywhere you find nationalized health care around the world, you find very substantial health care rationing. It will be the same under Obamacare.

Like the rationing that already goes on within the insurance companies?

#5) Just like in the U.K. and Canada, government bureaucrats will decide who gets care and who doesn't, and therefore they will often decide who lives and who dies.

Again, like the current insurance companies? Seriously, have you never heard of an HMO?

#6) If the government does allow you to get care, in order to control costs government bureaucrats (and not your doctor) will decide what treatment you will get for your condition. If they decide the treatment you need is not "cost-efficient" then you are sore out of luck.

You already said that, and that already happens.

#7) The bureaucracy required to run Obamacare will be a nightmare of unprecednted magnitude and it will quickly send federal deficits into the stratosphere.

Not that having healthier workers would bring in more money from income taxes when said workers would be able to see doctors instead of a) going to work sick and spreading illness among other workers, or b) calling out of work and having to sleep it off without medical care or medicines and then losing their jobs to collect unemployment due to too much time taken off.

#8) Obamacare will FORCE Americans to get health insurance. If you do not get health insurance you will be subjected to extremely heavy fines.

Because health insurance is such a bad thing...

#9) It has been confirmed that elective abortion will be covered for all Americans. Because this is what health care is all about now - eugenics.

After all your bitching about the amount it's going to cost, you're complaining about people deciding not to bring in more people that would need to be covered under the plan? One or the other dude, one or the other.

8/22/2009 10:34:42 PM

simply not edible

Let's just compare this with the situation over here in the Netherlands:

1. Nope.
2. Nope, can just keep your doctor, no problem.
3. Nope, still got all those private IC's.
4. Bullshit. Not even wrong, just bullshit.
5. Nope, and somehow not very different from being decided to let people die for not having health insurance.
6. Nope, more bullshit here.
7. Nope.
8. Not even true, here. People can opt out for religious reasons.
9. Not even worth responding to.

So there you have it, an educated view from a country with nationwide healthcare. Somehow, we manage to survive.

We also get more that 2 weeks paid leave, you know. It's like, I don't know, people here actually get treated well, and Obama is trying to catch up a bit.

8/22/2009 10:42:11 PM

Clown

@Godbuster:
Religion: Making money on people's suffering and fears since the first death from disease.

8/22/2009 11:37:53 PM

Tolpuddle Martyr

The UK has a nationalised system, Australia has a Nationalised system and guess what? The men in black have yet to come and abduct anyone in the middle of the night in those countries because they hold a Medicare Card. Calm down Rev'.

8/23/2009 12:19:21 AM

You wouldn't know a fact if it sat on your face, dumbass.

8/23/2009 12:22:16 AM

Freethink

The sickening facts about "Obamacare" are brain dead idiots like the RR crew! They don't even try to find out the truth! They don't know a thing, and they're still against something that could really benefit them. That's really sad.

Their stupidity is hazardous to their own best interests. Too bad they have been brainwashed so badly, they'll believe almost anything they're told by anyone they think is one of them (insert favorite wingnut politician, pastor, reverend). They will not question the lies.

8/23/2009 1:17:37 AM

raindrops

What are you complaining about?
Your government is trying its best to provide you with better health care, it probably is not perfect but at least it is trying to do its best.
Imagine living in a poor country, where government officials fill their pockets before looking at the welfare of the people and only when election is near.
I would like to invite you to experience it, but we don't need your kind here to add to the problem!
You pile of shit!

8/23/2009 1:22:49 AM

Nowonmai

Wow, Lying for Jesus is still lying!

8/23/2009 2:34:22 AM

Nathan the Wise

Yeah, whatever. You're just getting silly now. Anyway, I thought Obama had given up on the government-run care option, so WTF are they bitching about now?

8/23/2009 3:26:27 AM

Eden

Um eugenics would mean selective breeding and therefore for the sake of your argument selective abortions.
Elective abortions, which means that persons are free to abort or not, no matter whether the possible genetic setupif their kids is good or not doesn´t have to do anything with eugenics

;)

As for National Healthcare:
So you think it is worse than the current system, where the No 1 reason for personal bankruptcies is medical bills and where many people prefer to go to work even when they´re sick, because they fear that the costs for the doc or the medicines would ruin their family?

8/23/2009 3:26:32 AM

Pule Thamex

I think you'll find that health care is anti-God. There is only one cure for cancer, measles and mumps etc, and that is prayer. We know that prayer is 100% effective and if you break a leg bone, don't bother with a splint, it won't work, just pray. Here's one you can use:-

PRAYER FOR HEALING

O God, thank you for being you, I wonder if you could heal my 100% burns that I incurred in a fire last night and also my baby who burned to death, could you cure her too? Thanks O Mighty Doctor of the Heavens.

O Lord, Mrs Wiggins next door has a sniffy cold, I was wondering if you cure her, as she can't say her n's very well.

Oh, and I heard that Mrs Umbongo's son at 29a, Africa, has evil body consuming parasites by drinking from the unsafe water supply, we pray that you can cure him O Mighty Skynurse. And after you are done curing my stubbed big toe O Tender Surgeon of the Sky, and only if you have a few seconds to spare from ensuring our comforts here in America, can you make the water supply in Africa completely safe.

Thanks O Paradisical Specialist for healing our cuts and grazes and for listening to the prayers of our Mammon-loving pastors and the prayers of their humble providers of coin, us.

Amen

8/23/2009 3:37:00 AM

Sorry. This is Xotan


1. I have my Carte Vitale. It contains my medical history and my entitlement to medical care on the spot - of whatever nature. It also means that I can go to any doctor anywhere in France where all of the above is available to me. Just plug it into the computer. Is this bad?

2. Can't comment on this as I don't know enough about the American proposals.

3. My understanding is that American Health Insurance Companies are cherry-picking customers and what illnesses they will cover. This does not happen in France. Regardless of age or condition, insurance companies are obliged to take on clients without examination, and at reasonable annual premiums. They are not going broke. Patients are not being cast onto the death-heap. So who is scaremongering? And who is fleecing the customer?

4. Bullshit. Look at France! There is no rationing of care. It is a caring and preventive system that is in operation. I see my doctor four times a year to prevent illness.

5. In France the only thing that the bureaucrats do is to lodge to my bank account a proportion of the minimal amounts I do have to pay up front. EG I pay the doctor Euro 22 per visit (which can last 30 mins or more depending on need) and the bureaucrats see that of that sum, Euro 14 is lodged to my account in the bank - a refund. The remainder is refunded by my insurance company. Sweet!

6. No doctor would approve of what you say here. It would probably violate their Hippocratic oath. Where I am the government has no say, or interest, in such a matter.

7. Er, it was Gearge Bush's lie and war based on that lie that wrecked the US's finances. Healthcare would cost a minute fraction of what Americans are paying for George the Liar's war.

8. So why shouldn't you have health insurance. You have car insurance, no? You have house insurance, no? You want to get some disease and have no cover for it? Besides, the worst fine of all would be to have a treatable but fatal disease and not have the cover to get cured. Are you an idiot, or is your thinking impaired in some way?

9. Looking at the fundy-frenzy over health care, I am more inclined that ever to think that eugenics, after all, might have something to recommend itself.

8/23/2009 3:55:56 AM

LOLWUT

>>>"#4) Virtually everywhere you find nationalized health care around the world, you find very substantial health care rationing. It will be the same under Obamacare."

False. We do not ration like that. There is rationing in your system, however.

>>>"#5) Just like in the U.K. and Canada, government bureaucrats will decide who gets care and who doesn't, and therefore they will often decide who lives and who dies."

False. Utterly, completely false. It's not like we assemble the parliament to decide on whether a braindead woman should be on life support or not, like in some countries!

>>>"#6) If the government does allow you to get care, in order to control costs government bureaucrats (and not your doctor) will decide what treatment you will get for your condition. If they decide the treatment you need is not "cost-efficient" then you are sore out of luck."

No, that's what you get with an entirely PRIVATISED system. The idea with universal healthcare is to make it available to everyone.

Revelation1412 is a Christian and a compulsive liar. That's shocking!

(Oh, and someone forgot to enable HTML.)

8/23/2009 4:25:20 AM

"#5) Just like in the U.K. and Canada, government bureaucrats will decide who gets care and who doesn't, and therefore they will often decide who lives and who dies."

Odd that, since I've only ever been refused coverage by insurance companies. When I needed surgery for carpal tunnel, the national health care stepped in. When my brother developed Chron's, the national health care stepped in. When my mother developed depression, and when my friend's dad needed a pacemaker... Well, you get the idea.

And my family is on the lower side of the income scale, so it has nothing to do with paying off any officials.

8/23/2009 5:26:12 AM

The cynism of these guys is amazing. The only country in the world where poor people die, confirming, in a way, eugenics, is America because poor people can´t afford going to the hospital.

8/23/2009 5:47:37 AM

Romana Twelve

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

Wait.

Hold up.

>It has been confirmed that elective abortion will be covered for all Americans.

Even the men?

8/23/2009 5:53:28 AM

Mister Spak

The sickening fact about conservatives is that their sick minds think of sick delusions like this.

8/23/2009 6:07:49 AM

Tired

If they had actual arguments against UHC, they would use them. Either they choose not to, or they have none.

The frustrating part is that they only listen to themselves and each other, and would rather believe a lie than the truth, as long as it's uttered by someone they already agree with. They think that facts are the same as opinions, and opinions can be facts. What I mean is that they believe that they can simply make up their mind about something, decide to believe it even when evidence contradicts it, and then demand respect for their opinions. You know, teach the controversy, "both sides", etc. as if all opinions and delusions are equally valid or equally rooted in reality. "I believe that Obama is Hitler, and that universal healthcare is eugenics and death panels. Respect my opinions. Teach the controversy."

8/23/2009 6:15:58 AM

Mookie Blaylock

Many factual errors. Not I would expect someone from RR to be connected to reality at all...

8/23/2009 7:31:25 AM

Porter

So saying Obama promotes eugenics is a new fad at RR now?

8/23/2009 7:43:25 AM

I love lists!

#1) A National Health identification card will be issued to all Americans.

So?

#2) You can keep your current doctor IF the government medical boards allow it.

So?

#3) You can keep your current insurance IF your insurance company does not go out of business because they can't compete with the new government-backed alternative.

Usually business go out because something better competes against it. In this case, "Obamacare" is better.

#4) Virtually everywhere you find nationalized health care around the world, you find very substantial health care rationing. It will be the same under Obamacare.

Learn what "virtually everywhere" means.

#5) Just like in the U.K. and Canada, government bureaucrats will decide who gets care and who doesn't, and therefore they will often decide who lives and who dies.

No, insurance companies do that. When they drop you before you need that expensive therapy.

#6) If the government does allow you to get care, in order to control costs government bureaucrats (and not your doctor) will decide what treatment you will get for your condition. If they decide the treatment you need is not "cost-efficient" then you are sore out of luck.

Insurance companies do this.

#7) The bureaucracy required to run Obamacare will be a nightmare of unprecednted magnitude and it will quickly send federal deficits into the stratosphere.

Yeah, because not having debt is more important than having healthy people.

#8) Obamacare will FORCE Americans to get health insurance. If you do not get health insurance you will be subjected to extremely heavy fines.

Because if you don't have health insurance, you can seriously rack up some medical bills.

#9) It has been confirmed that elective abortion will be covered for all Americans. Because this is what health care is all about now - eugenics.

You obviously don't know what eugenics is.

8/23/2009 8:27:16 AM