Guys, this isn't necessarily a racist comment. Lots of people just like the flag for different reasons, not because they're neo-confederates. People in southern states like South Carolina fly it around all the time and they're not racist.
8/31/2009 7:13:59 AM
LOL, the confederate flag stands for treason.
8/31/2009 7:17:42 AM
The america where mismanagement is strong, where slavery is still in use and where ponzi schemes are still legal.
8/31/2009 7:38:29 AM
The confederate flag stands for brave but stupid hicks who rush off to war at the drop of a hat, without a thought to the reasons, justifications, or consequences.
It stands for incompetence of government, An agrarian economy, and class segregation based on wealth.
It also stands for the exploitation of slaves, and for the resulting high rates of unemployment among the poor.
It stands for people living in tar paper shacks, with no access to education or infrastructure. And it stands for plywood mansions, garrishly decorated with overpriced kitsch.
It stands for wallowing in self pity over a war that ended 140 odd years ago.
And it stands for stagnation.
8/31/2009 7:59:09 AM
Nathan the Wise
You lost. Get over it.
8/31/2009 8:15:19 AM
Not sure this is racist. Standard right wing rant.
And I think D Laurier. nails it beautifully.
8/31/2009 8:24:59 AM
The confederate flag IS a racist symbol. It's the flag that supporters of slavery proudly displayed. It's the flag that the Klan used to intimidate African-Americans from exercising their rights, and it's the flag used by segregationists.
8/31/2009 8:27:53 AM
It could also stand for southern pride, which the folks down there seem to have a lot of. What's so racist about being proud to be a southerner?
8/31/2009 9:10:10 AM
"The confederate flag stands for the America I love,...:
Yeah but to many black people, it represents a time when their ancestors were slaves and treated inhumanely.
8/31/2009 9:40:31 AM
Betcha $20 this dumb fuck has a "United We Stand" sticker on his pickup.
8/31/2009 9:41:10 AM
Galt, I'm from Virginia, but that's beside the point. The south is a region of the country that defined itself as different because of the presence of slavery and segregation. If you're proud of those two things than I think you have a problem.
8/31/2009 10:06:42 AM
Who says you have to define the south like that? They could also define themselves by their distinct culture, and their hospitality. They're not all white supremacists, and I should know, I'm a Jew. If you're visiting a different region of the country, you'd notice differences in the people there too.
8/31/2009 11:30:33 AM
Yeah, I'm really enjoying my economic freedom. I just cashed in what little I had left in my investment account to pay the rent.
8/31/2009 11:54:49 AM
Everyone shuts up now.
8/31/2009 12:42:56 PM
The Confederacy didn't accept black soldiers – except as houseboys to officers and some camp servants – until the very end, when they didn't have any white farmboys left. Even then, the enticement was the promise of postwar freedom, not a love 'o Dixie.
The Confederate-flag-isn't-racist argument differs little from the claim that the Civil War wasn't over slavery, but rather about "states' rights." In a technical sense that's true, but what "right" did the South take up arms to defend? The "right" to own other human beings, and damn little else.
8/31/2009 12:52:36 PM
I never defined the south like that, they did it themselves. The culture, the "hospitality" all based on the racial caste system. Southern whites defined themselves on the grounds that they were not black; that they were not the ones with no freedoms. They then, often violently, enforced that on the black population.
I agree, not all white southerners were or are like that. I have a great deal of respect for Moris Dees, he's one of my heroes. But it is critical that southerners realize that the culture that they hold dear is based on these inequalities, especially if they want to move forward.
8/31/2009 2:27:03 PM
Have you ever really been to the South? I'm not talking Virginia, I'm talking the Deep South. The people there are incredibly polite. You won't find that in my hometown in New York. Not to mention the food they have there, their distinct music, the dialect, the communities where people care about others instead of just themselves. Does this sound like a racist culture to you? You have to stop hanging on to the past. They've moved on from the whole Confederacy thing and the whole purpose of the flag now is to be proud of what the South has become. Seems you're the only one who needs to move forward.
As for Morris Dees, I'm not a fan of him, mainly because he profits from intolerance. He has to stop labeling entire hate groups by the actions of one hate-motivated criminal.
8/31/2009 2:58:40 PM
I'm with John Galt.
I know people who had ancestors who fought in the Civil War. They weren't big time plantation owners because that's not who fought in the war.
They fought the war because they (perhaps mistakenly) perceived the north to be encroaching on the way of life they knew.
Yes, a lot of people who fly the Confederate Flag are assholes, but others display it as a symbol of respect to their ancestors who died protecting what they believed in.
8/31/2009 3:54:44 PM
@John Galt WTF are you smoking?! They may not claim they are racist, but there is no other reason to fly the stars and bars. (there are several confederate flags)
8/31/2009 3:57:22 PM
This is unrelated but, I sometimes drive by a house that has kept their US flag upside down since the election.
8/31/2009 4:12:11 PM
Do you count Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina? Yes, there is distinct music, distinct manners, distinct language all in that part of the country. But the fact remains that most of that was predicated on the existence of slavery and segregation? With out those two things how would the south be any different from any other region of the nation? I agree it has changed in the last 50 years, but why would you fly a symbol of a racist past if you're trying to put it behind you?
WTF Morris Dees is the intolerant one? Um, last time I checked he put many Klan groups out of business, and helped to bring many of the worst violent offenders to justice.
8/31/2009 4:14:19 PM
Um, how exactly is southern culture derived from those two? Are you sure it wouldn't have existed without slavery or segregation? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
As for Morris Dees, I wasn't calling him intolerant. I just hate how he tries to build up even more hate among the hate groups by targeting them instead of the individuals who commit the hate crimes. There's no need to put the neo-Nazi groups out just because of the actions of one guy. Yes they're hateful bastards, but they have a right to those beliefs.
8/31/2009 6:10:41 PM
I live in the South. I've traveled throughout it for years. My family is from the South.
John, having good music and fried food doesn't prevent racism. Nor does it prove anything to be polite to other light-skinned people, or to be nice to black people in public.
Of course all Southerners aren't racist; that would be painting with as broad a brush as racists do themselves. But large numbers are, including many of my relatives – and the symbol they adopt to display that is the Confederate flag. Of course they'll deny it when bluntly asked "Are you flying that because you're a bigot?" Duh.
But get a few beers in them, catch them around people they feel "safe" with, or get them mad about anything, and out it pours. In my (extensive) experience, the people who genuinely speak of "Southern heritage" devoid of any racial context are very few indeed.
8/31/2009 6:11:31 PM
And that music and food that Lucillius speaks of has direct ties to Africa. Were there slaves in the north, yes, but they were nowhere near the numbers that the south had. And who was serving that food, building those cities, roads, and working on the farms in the antebellum era?
On the eve of the Civil War states like South Carolina, Mississippi, and Alabama were majority or near majority black. The purpose of slavery by the 1860s wasn't just economic, it was to ensure that those OMG SCARWY black people didn't exercise their rights.
Finally Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center are absolutely correct in holding hate groups for their crap. If they encourage, advocate, or order members to engage in violent acts against minorities, and it results in action it is no longer free speech and the victims deserve compensation.
8/31/2009 6:34:58 PM
That country ceased to exist in 1865. Come join the 21st century.
8/31/2009 6:55:08 PM