[In the thread, Why Is Mary's Virginity So Important?]
In addition to all that has been posted, I add this. Joseph saw the events surrounding Mary's cousin Elizabeth, her husband having been struck mute for doubting the angel, etc. He received visions after Jesus was born. He was there when the wise men sought out Jesus and brought him gifts. He was there for the great Theophany when the angels sang at the nativity and the shepherds came to give adoration. He witnessed Simeon's recognition of Jesus as Messiah during the presentation in the Temple. And of course, Mary told him of the angel Gabriel's message.
Being the holy and upright man that he was, and given all that had transpired, would Joseph even contemplate intercourse with Mary?
Would any man among us, were we in his shoes?
87 comments
Yes, I firmly believe that Joseph would do far more than "contemplate" sex with his wife. Joseph was a Jew. Unlike the modern Catholic Church, Judaism celebrates physical love between husbands and wives. For them sex is not, nor was it ever, viewed as a necessary evil to bring children into the world.
Education Gerard, get it, it helps.
All of my immediate reactions have already been posted, so just one back at EvoPagan: Maybe Joseph never did touch her, but she spread it around to "strange gods." Jesus' siblings could have resulted from a Roman pantheon gang-bang.
I'd fuck her like the hot bitch she was (if she was, anyway). I bet ol' Joe would have done too, if the silly old bastard had ever actually existed. It says in some part of the New Testicles that Jebus had brothers ... where the fuck did they come from, then?
Anyway, this whole virgin schtick stems from some idiot not reading his prophecies correctly, and not knowing the difference between a 'young girl' and a 'virgin'. So, fail all round.
image
How can you not contemplate intercourse with the virgin Mary?
..okay, so thats Brtiney Spears..but she is just as popular as Virgin Mary..and she isnt a fictional character either.
I'm pretty sure that the reason Joseph is seen as a good man, according to the Bible, is that he accepted a pregnant bride and a child that was not his. Not because he didn't touch his wife. The Bible even says there's nothing wrong with having sex with your wife.
If God created sex and all that he created was good, then how can it be wrong for Joseph to have sex with his wife, as that is the purpose of sex..to join husband and wife....If a couple don't consummate a marriage, it is not a marriage and they are disobeying God's command for married couples....Joseph witnesses and helped Mary to give birth so would have seen her naked...
I don't know what's more stupid about his answer:
1)his non-sequitur
2)his abhorrence of sex(why would he contemplate intercorse?, maybe because she was his wife and loved her and wanted children with her, among other reasons)
3)His fixation in Joseph, not in Mary.
you'll have to prove to me, at least, that any of that angel and shepherd shit ever happened.
here's a modern example of the same kind of nonsense:
Kim Jong-il's official biography states that he was born in a secret military camp on Baekdu Mountain in northern Korea on 16 February 1942. Official biographers claim that his birth at Baekdu Mountain was foretold by a swallow, and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the heavens.
same shit, different name.
Oh, I guess they were big on adoption, then. I mean, babies don't make themselves! Woops. My bad. Of course they do.
@ C_V:
"Kim Jong-il's official biography ... claim(s) that his birth at Baekdu Mountain was foretold by a swallow, and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the heavens."
The unofficial version states that his father told him, "The best part of you was swallowed. That's what I get for banging the Rainbow Twins instead of the star whore of the barracks!"
Mary is alleged to be a virgin because the precedent was set long before that gods only bang "fresh meat".
To quote the Catholic Encyclopedia:
'A year after his wife's death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old , went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.'(my bolding).
If he was in his nineties I'd be suprised if the old boy still had it in him. In the story there's no problem about Jesus's brothers because Mary was Joseph's second wife:
'When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, "the Lord's brother").
Then Mary and Joseph weren't married.
The laws of the time clearly indicated that a marriage was not valid until and unless it was CONSUMMATED. I.e., no sex = no marriage.
Somehow I don't think you thought your clever dogma all the way through.
@ solomongrundy:
The Catholic Encyclopedia does go on to say that the story given above is 'void of all authority', though.
Gah. I read their 'explanation' of the two genealogies of Jebus. Talk about clutching at straws.
According to biblical scholars, the word "VIRGIN" was a mistranslation of the original word which actually means "YOUNG WOMAN". This adds another layer of "fail" to this mythology. The whole story is based on smoke and mirrors to begin with, anyway.
Matthew 1:25 says "And [Joseph] knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS" a clear indication that she went on to have at least one more son. Can't have a "firstborn" without a "secondborn."
Ergo, catholic fundies are just as illiterate about the bible as their protestant counterparts.
The idea that the Virgin Mary was always a virgin was not shared by the earliest Christians and in fact seems to have emerged in Christian Europe only after 1000 C.E. Before then it was commonally accepted that Jesus had brothers and sisters, in fact the Gospel of Matthew refers to them and James is called "the brother of the lord". The amount of special pleading to get around that is extrodinary. The doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity did not become Catholic dogma until the mid 19th century, before than many Catholics would have regarded the doctrine as a heresy and false. I myself think it is simply in direct contradiction of the Gospels.
Always figured Joseph for a fundy.
Joseph (After seeing a couple of "wise men" departing after delivering Mary "gifts") : "Well if it aint mine, whose was it?"
Mary: "Goddidit!"
Joseph: "All righty then!"
"Being the holy and upright man that he was, and given all that had transpired, would Joseph even contemplate intercourse with Mary?"
So you're saying Joseph wouldn't even so much as talk to Mary... wait a minute.
I don't know. She's still his wife. If I were him I'd ask God.
Dear God,
I know you knocked her up and all. I have no doubt on that. I've never suspect Aaron from next door, or Isaac the potter, or any other guy but you. But seriously, you told me to marry her right? And by that you forbade me from f-king anyone else. So, can I do it with her? Seriously it would be real cruel if I can't.
Yours truly,
Joseph.
Let's face it, the only reason anyone's virginity means anything in this religion is that it's a means for them to control sex. You control sex, you have a lot of power over people.
Thankfully, they don't have that kind of control in this day and age over most people. Their efforts are failing.
She could perform hand-jobs and that wouldn't compromise her virginity.
You could also perform intercrural sex on her....
And if she had nice-looking feet, then she could also give foot-jobs and remain a virgin.
Am I thinking about this too much?
Depends... was she hot?
EDIT : Of course, someone made this comment, before.
I mean at the very least, she wasn't a virgin after giving birth the Jesus anymore.
"Would any man among us, were we in his shoes?"
Not just yes. Hell yes. I would even buy her a leather collar that said "Holy Slut" in gold letters on the front.
@ Zoo
Not only that, they insist that Mary was born of a virgin too. It is the doctrine of immaculate conception, a non-biblical notion that is rejected by all major protestant sects, but is one of many things that is a sin for Catholics to not accept without questions. Virginity and celibacy are more than a big deal in the Catholic Church. They are obsessions!
Don't some fundies make the argument/statement that the Bible says that once married, women are the property of their husbands and must submit to them for sex( and that marital rape doesn't exist)? Wouldn't she really be required to 'consummate' their marriage in order for them to even be considered husband and wife in those days?
Would any man among us, were we in his shoes?
What, contemplate sex with my wife? I'd damn well do more than contemplate it! Is that even a serious question?
I'd like to see this "God" versus Joe on Maury Povich. Find out which one is the babydaddy.
And what must it be like to be Jesus' brother?
"James Herbert Christ! Why can't you be more like Him? He's damn near perfect , and you, you can't even miracle up your own breakfast. Feh! Oh, you're 'the lesser' allright. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy"
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.