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Quote# 65810


Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?
God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will.

God DID create the world perfect. He DID make perfect DNA, but when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God had no choice but to allow there to be consequences. God is love but he is also justice.

Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects? Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?

Naomi, Y! answers 100 Comments [9/19/2009 8:07:58 AM]
Fundie Index: 45
WTF?! || meh
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Nihlum

Sometimes, you just have to sigh. Then hit your head against your desk.


9/19/2009 8:10:27 AM

Ken

So God has to allow little children to suffer and then let adults suffer for the rest of their lives? Because some people ate some fruit that he practically put in their mouths? It's really unfair in my opinion. And if anything is tacky, it's God.

Wait, then plastic surgery to correct deformities is a sin?

9/19/2009 8:16:22 AM

Grigori Yefimovich

God must allow...
God cannot mess with...
God had no choice...

What was that about omnipotence again?

9/19/2009 8:18:53 AM

Woody

Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?

Atheists do not believe Gawd exists, why do you not get that? It is not rocket science; theists (that's you god-botherers) think Gawd exists, atheists ("a" as a prefix means the opposite) do not believe he exists. Do try and remember that the next time you try to formulate an argument.

God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will

But, he made us and he is perfect. So who actually messed up here?

God had no choice but to allow there to be consequences

Gawd, the almighty has no choice but to let us suffer. Is he omnipotent or not?

9/19/2009 8:24:52 AM

Caustic Gnostic

First of all, god doesn't allow anything. Nature takes its course, for better or worse.

As the fruit allegory suggests, the acquisition of knowledge is the stroke of doom for god and his whores. The priesthood needed to invent the concept of sin in order to preserve their personal prerogatives.

...Attack God for allowing birth defects?

Hey, you're the simpleton who asserts that he has a hand in everything.

[ETA] @ Thinking Allowed, per the Apocryphon of John, that's precisely what he is. There's a very interesting spin in there about not only the tree of Knowledge, but the tree of Life as well. Christ was the serpent in the first and the eagle in the second. Eve had to help, because Adam wasn't all there.

9/19/2009 8:28:29 AM

Thinking Allowed

So all your god had to do in order for things to keep from getting messed up was not put the tree there to start with.

A lot of times I think the christian god is nothing but a spoiled child.

9/19/2009 8:29:14 AM

John

Where do fundies keep getting this nonsense about "eating the fruit caused everything to deteriorate"? We go from women having pain during childbirth and men having to battle weeds and crop failure in Genesis, to Paul's claim, which he pulled out of his ass and wasn't in the OT, about the fruit causing sin and death, to the fruit causing the second law of thermodynamics itself. Genetic errors aren't created by human sin or free will, so the argument that stopping birth defects would mess with free will is ridiculous.

9/19/2009 8:29:30 AM

Zeus Almighty

"Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects? Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?"

... Said the fundie who probably argues that AIDS is god's punishment on the fags. Plus, atheists don't attack god, for the same reason they don't attack unicorns.

9/19/2009 8:32:06 AM

Marc

Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?

Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't be asking.

God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will.

So, Adam and Eve sinned, thus, forcing DNA to go bad?

God DID create the world perfect. He DID make perfect DNA, but when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God had no choice but to allow there to be consequences. God is love but he is also justice.

So, what you're saying is that God either doesn't have free will, or he's not omnipotent? Beyond that, why punish children for the sins of their parents? Isn't that what God is doing by punishing future generations because of Adam and Eve?

Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects? Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?

No, it's not. It's pointing out an obvious flaw in the idea that your god is omnibenevolent and omnipotent.

9/19/2009 8:36:43 AM

Mudak

I was born with a birth defect (a harelip). I don't blame god for this, although it's not something I was comfortable discussing until I was in college. God, to me, is a meaningless concept.

I recognize that the fact of my birth defect is a fluke of nature. I suspect it had something to do with the area where my parents lived when I was conceived, although I can't speak to the specifics of it. It turns out that there was a disproportionate rate of birth defects in that general area in the late 60's and early 70's, and that puts me right in the middle of it as a statistic.

9/19/2009 8:38:30 AM

szaleniec

"Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument?"
Yeah, like fundies have never done that. Idiot.

9/19/2009 8:43:57 AM

Papabear

"Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?"

Christians, do you understand that there is no (zero, zip, nada, nil) credible evidence for the existence of God?


"God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will."

The Bible says God created evil? Isn't evil bad?


"God DID create the world perfect."

Yeah, if you capitalize it, it makes it true.


"He DID make perfect DNA, but when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God had no choice but to allow there to be consequences. God is love but he is also justice."

There is nothing just about an omnipotent being allowing suffering of innocents. No omnipotent being who allows the suffering on innocents can be omni-benevolent, nor "love."


"Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects?"

No, it is not.


"Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?"

Holding your "perfect" God to the highest standards is neither cheap nor tacky, and you're a fool for thinking that it might be.

9/19/2009 8:49:40 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?
God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will."

And with free will, scientists are using their knowledge of DNA and what it does, via the Human Genome Project, to do research to correct birth defects, using genetic engineering. And you fundies realise the full implications of that, don't you?:

By them doing what God can't, or won't do, Scientists will become superior to God

"Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects? Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?"

All's fair in love and destroying fundamentalist religions. If you can't take the heat, become Atheists yourselves.

9/19/2009 8:52:49 AM

John

Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument?

So if someone goes to a town meeting and argues that the local chemical plant should be made to clean up its toxic waste because ten children suffered brain damage from heavy metal contaminants leaching into the water supply, he's "exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument"?

9/19/2009 8:57:48 AM

BobsOldSocks

"Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?"

First off, you make the assumption that your god exists - there is no evidence to support that assertion whatsoever.

"God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up..."

I've done nothing to nobody. Exactly how did I mess anything up? Am I to be punished for other people's crimes? How just is that? How wise or fair or forgiving is that? Bit of a vindictive arsehole, this god of yours.

"...and God cannot mess with free will."

If your god cannot do *all* things then he isn't much of a god and not worthy of worship.

"God DID create the world perfect."

Evidence for this lunatic assertion, please.

"He DID make perfect DNA,..."

Evidence for this lunatic assertion, please.

"...but when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit,..."

Fruit that your god in the fairy tale just happen to leave lying around where any innocent might come across it. Sneaky bastard.

"...God had no choice but to allow there to be consequences."

Your god had "no choice"?! Then he isn't god.

"God is love but he is also justice."

Your god is a childish prankster, a vengeful, hateful tyrant. I ask again, how just is it to punish innocents for other people's crimes?

"Plus, isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects?"

No. Your god is supposedly omniscient and omnipotent, why - unless he was a vengeful, hateful, uncaring monster - would he allow innocents to suffer?

"Isn't this exploiting a terrible thing in order to win an argument? Isn't that tacky?"

Isn't your dismissal of the suffering of innocent children to win an argument callous and uncaring?

9/19/2009 9:10:25 AM

Berny

This is the oldest cop-out for god in the book. If he's as benevolent as you want us to believe then there is no excuse for anything bad that might plague us, whether it be disease, genetic defects, natural or man-made disasters.
They exist because your benevolent god doesn't.

9/19/2009 9:12:52 AM



Yet God is Omniscient so he knew all of this was going to happen and made no effort to stop it. He knew eve was going to eat from the tree. So why did he put it there in the first place? He knew Satan would deceive him. So why did he create him in the first place?

9/19/2009 9:36:33 AM

Jack D

I didn't know God was vulnerable to cheap shots. Sorry I hurt his feelings

9/19/2009 9:45:30 AM

Clown

So, god isn't what you said it was, aka almighty, all-seeing being that loves us all. Thanks for clearing it for us.

9/19/2009 9:47:24 AM

Deep Search

"isn't it kind of a cheap shot to attack God for allowing birth defects?"

No? And, yeah, when you say things like "God had no choice" he sorta doesn't sound much like a God. God's hands were tied? Come on, he's supposed to be God.

9/19/2009 9:50:51 AM

Wehpudicabok

Way to outline three things that God can't do, proving he isn't God. You're on your first steps toward atheism.

Also: LOL @ Jack D. :)

9/19/2009 9:53:28 AM

Headache

Atheists, do you understand why God must allow birth defects to exist?
God made the world without anything bad be WE messed it up and God cannot mess with free will.


Prayer FTW!

So, are you saying prayers are useless then?

I seem to remember that both Matthew 7:7 and John 14, 12-14 says you can pray for anything and you will get it, no restrictions at all.

That does not seem to mesh with your crazy idea. Why do you not believe what the bible tells you?

9/19/2009 9:54:08 AM

aaa

What, can't handle tough questions?

9/19/2009 10:01:53 AM

Old Viking

A theologically solid argument. Senseless, but theologically solid.

9/19/2009 10:08:24 AM

EvoPagan

If he has to allow it, then he isn't omnipotent.

9/19/2009 10:11:03 AM
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