If an unbeliever does do anything positive it's by the grace of God that he was able to do it, through the power that God has given him. And even then, the unbeliever is still in sin because he's giving credit to himself or someone else for something that God did.
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So, lets say I managed to end all religion, thus ending all the baggage, the murders, the rapes, the brainwashing that religion brings, and keep all of the charities intact, that would be by the "grace of God"? Sounds paradoxical to me. You did say ANYTHING positive is the criteria for this conjecture of yours, so therefore one counter-example proves it false.
Short answer, you're a bloody moron.
@ iComix. I think that what the fundie is saying is nothing good is done but "through" the grace of god, not for.
I am getting so sick of this win-win argument for the fundie. If you ANYTHING good, it was God acting through you, and so justifies his misplaced faith. If you do ANYTHING bad, it was your sinful ways/Satan/rock music seducing you.
If only it WAS that simple.
So...basically, unbelievers don't have to bother trying to be good, because god will do it all for us. Sweet. I'm going to go something fun and illegal to do since my actions clearly don't fucking matter, I'll still be a sinning bastard to God.
I swear, if this is even close to what god is actually like, i'll personally kick his ass for being a prick.
The same can be said about the Christian, since, after all, God is manifested in the same way in both. Your point?
"If an unbeliever does do anything positive it's by the grace of God that he was able to do it"
So similarly if the unbeliever does anything negative, that's by God's grace too, right? Bang goes free-will, and with it the concept of sin.
I do so love it when fundies start trying to crowbar their god into everything to get around the fact that belief and ethical behaviour do not correlate.
If an unbeliever does do anything positive it's by the grace of Allah that he was able to do it, through the power that Allah has given him. And even then, the unbeliever is still in sin because he's giving credit to himself or someone else for something that Allah did.
Fixed.
This kind of sounds like the typical Christian argument of "Everything good comes from God, and everything bad comes from Satan." There's nothing wrong with giving yourself credit for something you did yourself. The problem is when you have people who can't give themselves credit because they just think it's God doing everything through them.
Well done. Your profound theological knowledge has caught Jesus out in His lie.
Except, what is good?
My GP spent a year in Bangkok giving Depra shots and treating STD's in prostitutes. A noble task IMO (hey, their pimps don't give a damn if they get knocked up or not). I'm sure according to you assholes, he's going to hell for his work. And yes, it was with Doctors without Borders.
If you do something good, it's all God's doing, but if you do something bad, it's either all your fault, or you were possessed by Satan... you just can't win with these dinks.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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