I've started sort of quizzing my friends and family about what Salvation is and how to obtain it. Here is an example: (I made it real easy!)
Why do you think a person needs Salvation?
A. To live a better life?
B. We are all wretched and fallen because of our sinful nature which condemns us to Hell. Without Christ's sacrifice, we are doomed to be lost forever.
They said "both", fair enough. But, I wanted to see which Gospel they had been hearing, so I said "you can only pick one". Well, they picked A.
I don't know, maybe I should have worded it better, but I thought I made it an obvious answer.
44 comments
You left out "C"...
C. Because I cannot think for myself and I'm a worthless piece of crap. That's what the bible says...
Which is probably what heart_changed99 believes, anyway. *sigh*
That's the way they think.
Yes, you did make it a very obvious answer. And your friends and family all got it entirely right. If we choose to ignore the presumption that people need "salvation" to begin with, option A is the only logical choice of the two; only a complete failure to humanity would pick B.
So what's the problem here, again? Oh, right, that I just hit a little too close to home for you.
> A. To live a better life?
> B. We are all wretched and fallen because of our sinful nature which condemns us to Hell. Without Christ's sacrifice, we are doomed to be lost forever.
> I thought I made it an obvious answer.
Oooh! Oooh! Isn't this like one of those Dilbert's "consumer opinion polls"?
Paraphrasing, since I don't have the book at hand, let alone an English edition:
How would you like to travel?
1. By car!
2. By train!
3. Get manhandled inside an aluminum tube that flies at great altitude and could drop off the sky at any time and explode in a gigantic fireball, leaving no survivors!
Oh, so some intelligent people are picking a logical and intelligent answer, rather than being blind sheeple, and it annoyed you?
Good.
But is Option A not exactly the desire that shines through all of your rapture fantasies at rapture ready?
To be taken on a joyride by Jesus to live a carefree life in heaven from then on without having to go through the (possibly painful) process of dying first ;)
your life philosophy is very sad and pathetic. what it must be like to go through life thinking that your fellow man (including yourself) are wretched, worthless pieces of shit. instead of, you know, loving thy neighbor. i seem to remember one the guys you people follow saying something about that. now who was it.....?
Well, that's certainly what Paul said (Romans 4, I believe), but Christ said doing good without expecting anything in return makes you the son of the "most high" and gets you great rewards in heaven (Luke 6).
So what are you? Christians or Paulians?
Have you ever counted the number of times Jesus refers to heaven in the gospels? Fundamentalists like to pull those verses out and repeat them ad nauseum, thus giving the impression that the gospels are all about heaven. Actually though, Jesus doesn't talk that much about heaven per se.
What Jesus does talk about primarily is, wait for it, conducting yourself in this world! I cite the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount in particular. It was Paul (and later apologists who masqueraded as Paul, such as the author of 2nd Thessalonians) who promoted the idea that life was all about preparing for death. In reading the epistles, one gets the real sense that, to Paul, the only thing that Jesus did of any importance was die.
Yes heart_changed99, the answer is obvious, for people who have actually read the gospels. You might want to read them some time.
Q: Why do you think a person needs Salvation?
A: Who says?
B: Salvation from what?
C: Fuck that shit! I need coffee.
@Caustic Gnostic
Good one!
You & your kind are a virus, heart_changed99. A filthy plague. You are akin to Smallpox.
And remember what happened to Smallpox in the Eradication Program betwen 1950-80? We Atheists are the vaccine against you.
Religion is the disease. Science is the cure.
'Salvation' is to people, what a Boeing 747 is to an amoeba: irrelevant and pointless.
In order to make it a fair and impartial survey, you must add a third option.
Might I be so bold as to suggest:
C. Due to the fact that you are an annoying and ignorant douchenozzle, I get to chop your fucking head of with a sword.
As per usual, the parts of my faith that make me feel ashamed are the ones that have severe psych damage.
If these guys hired an actual shrink, they would convert to a nicer sect faster than you can say "Freud".
"We are all wretched and fallen because of our sinful nature which condemns us to Hell. Without Christ's sacrifice, we are doomed to be lost forever."
Speak for yourself, asshole.
Here's a better question:
Why would the beloved creations of a perfect, all-loving god even need salvation?
See, this is another reason I don't want to be Christian. It's founded on the premises that we're bad and terrible people, and that kissing the ass of the guy responsible is the only way to help ourselves. Sorry, but I'd like to think humans are a little bit better than that.
It's called depression,
seek help.
Wow, you phrased it in as biased a fashion as you possibly could, & they still felt that A was more important.
Or maybe they're just stupid.
Either way.
Counterquestion:
What is this "salvation" anyway? It never came to my mind before religionists mentioned it ...
... and that makes me deeply suspicious: A common scam is to claim that the scammer is the only one to provide a solution to a pressing problem, which must be addressed immediately otherwise devastation will ensure. A problem that the scammer himself invented, and which does not exist in reality.
Christianity might be one of the most malicious scams ever in human history.
You left out C.
You die anyway.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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