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Quote# 66677

A conservative military watchdog says she disagrees with the recent recommendation by several high-level members of President Obama's defense team that the ban on women serving on submarines should be dropped.

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, says besides putting women in a very confined area with dozens of male sailors, the constantly recycled atmosphere creates a health risk.

"In the very early days and weeks of pregnancy, the recycled atmosphere [in a submarine] includes elements that are very unsafe for an unborn child," she notes.

"So let's suppose three weeks out [to sea], a married sailor discovers she's pregnant. And the ship commander has two choices -- either [he] violate[s] the stealthy status of the submarine by surfacing for a dangerous evacuation, or he tells her that she will have to remain as she is throughout the deployment.

"This is an impossible dilemma that can and should be avoided," says the military watchdog.

Elaine Donnelly, OneNewsNow 53 Comments [10/27/2009 12:42:27 AM]
Fundie Index: 16
WTF?! || meh
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Wehpudicabok

I think this might be a repost.

10/27/2009 12:46:38 AM

SleepNeed

Elaine Donnelly....How does that ring a bell? Oh yea she's the batshit insane woman who thinks that by repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell and letting openly gay soldiers serve then HIV will spread through the ranks and lesbians would take pictures in the showers. Why am I not surprised that she hates her own gender?

10/27/2009 1:09:23 AM

aaa

Two words: Birth control.

10/27/2009 1:14:47 AM

Semi-Christian

Deja vu?

10/27/2009 1:31:33 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

Wait, what?

In whose demented imaginations do women choose to be shuffling around on a sub while they are pregnant? Oh its just women the conservative military watchdog has a problem with, now it makes sense!

10/27/2009 1:34:32 AM

SubTachyon

Perhaps if you tought children about birth control instead of your bullshit 'love jesus and fuck later' shit like this wouldn't even have to cross your mind.

10/27/2009 1:44:12 AM

sithyeti

While I don't agree with her cause this does kinda make sense. A pregnant woman on a ship would be that hard to transfer to shore, on a sub it wouldn't be a easy. Now I would hope that a woman submariner would be smart enough not to have unprotected sex when they know they are shipping out, it still can happen.

10/27/2009 2:22:59 AM

nutbunny

This is why they should fill submarines with a lot of red blooded male homosexual sailor types. No problems with the fetus :)

10/27/2009 2:35:08 AM

Eden

Are there any scientific studies that support her claims (about the air in a u-boat containing dangerous elements for growth of the unborn child during the first weeks of pregnancy)?

Btw. this doesn´t sound fundy to me

10/27/2009 2:46:20 AM

Nowonmai

Ok, for one thing, there is more than one bathroom on a submarine.

Also, thank you for sending women's rights back 50 years, you airhead.

10/27/2009 2:50:04 AM

Clown

I don't get it.

10/27/2009 2:50:55 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

"In the very early days and weeks of pregnancy, the recycled atmosphere [in a submarine] includes elements that are very unsafe for an unborn child," she notes.

Citation needed. What elements, pray tell? I'd wager the air in the average, modern submarine (especially an American one) is of a significantly higher quality than most major cities. Oh, wait, I was forgetting the ultraconservative mindset - polluting the air inside your own premises is bad because your employees can get sick (this is not, it should be stressed, because you give a fuck about their wellbeing, it's just that it allows them to sue your ass), but pumping all your exhaust fumes up the chimney so they diffuse into the biosphere cannot even conceivably do any harm, ever, no matter how many other people do the same thing or for how long. Besides, if everyone else is doing it, you should be allowed to as well, and any intervention to fairly regulate everyone at once is teh evul gubmint crushing basic freedoms and violating your god-given right to vent whatever filth you feel like on your own property; that it then diffuses across other people's property can hardly be blamed on you!

"So let's suppose three weeks out [to sea], a married sailor discovers she's pregnant. And the ship commander has two choices -- either [he] violate[s] the stealthy status of the submarine by surfacing for a dangerous evacuation, or he tells her that she will have to remain as she is throughout the deployment.

Pregnancy test immediately before putting to sea and general issue of birth control pills leading up to and during the voyage. Problem solved. Also, I think anyone you'd trust enough to be put in charge of a goddamn nuclear weapons platform probably has a sufficient grasp of the concept of long-term consequences not to literally fuck around on duty anyway.

"This is an impossible dilemma that can and should be avoided," says the military watchdog.

Counterexamples exist; not impossible. And I'd expect any competent armed force to take a somewhat dim view of any defeatist statement of impossibility like that, without any apparent effort to even try to come up with an alternative.

10/27/2009 3:22:45 AM

EvoPagan

should be avoided

I agree. Let's make sure they all have contraception if they want it, and the morning after pill. I'm sure Elaine will go alone with that, right? Elaine? Elaine?

10/27/2009 3:34:31 AM

An actual Submariner

This is not some ghastly misogynist conservative outlook. EVERY country that operates Nuclear submarines operates this policy. The same does not apply to conventional boats (eg. those of Australia), which replenish their air when they snort, only nuclear powered ones. It is a genuine medical problem, not a political standpoint. Just because a far-right idiot says it doesn't mean it's a far-right idiotic idea.

10/27/2009 3:49:45 AM

The FBI is controlling your thoughts via your toaster

Oh Noes! Not Wimminz! Teh wimminz will distract men and keep them from killing people!

Admit it, that's what you really fear.

10/27/2009 4:02:18 AM



Yet another of the many excuses that have used to exclude women, to go along with "What if she has her period/PMS?".

Women aren't idiots. Inform them of the risks, and the need to practice birth control. They'll be more worried about getting pregnant than anyone else.

10/27/2009 4:14:03 AM

Philbert McAdamia

> unsafe for an unborn child <

Ah, now I see what the concern is,


@ Vince
Ever consider that a navy professional might not just spread it for everyone on the boat?

"navy professional"? Hahahahahahaha. Drunken Swab Jockey you mean.
Vince, I was in the navy (U.S.) I think you've been watching too much Victory At Sea, or Red October. It ain't like that. It isn't even Ensign Pulver or McHale's Navy. More like F Troop or The 3 Stooges in Sink or Swim. Trust me, Demi Moore is not aboard.

Navy professional, that's a good one. Of all the things I've heard us called that one's about the farthest out there. First time I've ever heard it, thanks for the chuckle.

10/27/2009 4:45:51 AM

Mister Spak

This is an argument for abortion rights if I ever heard one.

10/27/2009 4:53:59 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

Thanks for the distinction, actual submariner. Can you give more details, for the curious? Is it a biological/infectious thing, or what? I'm pretty sure scrubbers and whatnot can take care of simple CO2/O2 balancing, but there's probably more to it than that.

That said, the stated position is that the recycled atmosphere is harmful to pregnant women; I fail to see how the measures proposed, simple contraception and disallowing already pregnant women to go to sea on nuclear boats, couldn't handle that problem perfectly well and allow non-pregnant women to serve on subs.

10/27/2009 4:54:10 AM

Zoo

Eh, there are ways to prevent that from happening to begin with. I can't imagine the practice of doing preventive medicine before sending people out to sea for months has suddenly ceased.

10/27/2009 5:58:41 AM

Equalist

My question is, she apparently has no issue with possibly pregnant women serving in active duty (where they risk themselves and the fetus in the process being blown up or shot to death), but she has issues with them being on a submarine, where only the hypothetical fetus will be harmed. Aside from the obvious ripping apart she would receive from servicewomen everywhere based on that stance, is it just me or is this something else to point out the "save the fetus, screw the woman" mentality most of these types have?
Also, I thought it was kind of funny that she mentioned specifically that the woman in the hypothetical was married, as if that's a requirement for pregnancy. Although if that was the case, you'd think she'd see the easy solution of simply banning married women from submarines, since apparently in her little fantasy world, single women aren't having sex or getting pregnant.

10/27/2009 6:13:08 AM

Vince

Ever consider that a navy professional might not just spread it for everyone on the boat?

This hasn't been the catastrophe you were so convinced it was going to be for combat units or other naval vessels so what makes you think a submarine will be any worse?


and since when is the air on a sub unsafe?

10/27/2009 6:31:48 AM



The only thing I can think of is that they turn the oxygen on subs way the fuck down, to the point where it's nigh impossible to light a cigarette. I can imagine that being harmful to a pregnant woman.

She's still a misogynistic dope though.

10/27/2009 6:39:39 AM

werewolf

Bullshit!

10/27/2009 6:55:20 AM

Caustic Gnostic

Howzabout an all-woman submarine crew?

10/27/2009 7:07:24 AM
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