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Quote# 67789

[The ninth commandment says we should never bear false witness against our neighbor (or anyone). But if the Nazis are looking for Jews, and you know where they are, it would not be wrong to lie, in order to protect them, nor would this be bearing false witness “against” someone]

If we love God, we should obey Him (John 14:15). To love God first means to obey Him first—before looking at our neighbor. So, is the greater good trusting God when He says not to lie or trusting in our fallible, sinful minds about the uncertain future?

Consider this carefully. In the situation of a Nazi beating on the door, we have assumed a lie would save a life, but really we don’t know. So, one would be opting to lie and disobey God without the certainty of saving a life—keeping in mind that all are ultimately condemned to die physically. Besides, whether one lied or not may not have stopped the Nazi solders from searching the house anyway.

As Christians, we need to keep in mind that Jesus Christ reigns. All authority has been given to Him (Matthew 28:18), and He sits on the throne of God at the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:33; Hebrews 8:1). Nothing can happen without His say. Even Satan could not touch Peter without Christ’s approval (Luke 22:31). Regardless, if one were to lie or not, Jesus Christ is in control of timing every person’s life and able to discern our motives. It is not for us to worry over what might become, but rather to place our faith and obedience in Christ and to let Him do the reigning. For we do not know the future, whereas God has been telling the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10).

Bodie Hodge, Answers in Genesis 72 Comments [11/24/2009 7:30:07 PM]
Fundie Index: 86
WTF?! || meh
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myheadhurts

Zzz *snort* wha? sorry fell asleep

11/25/2009 12:57:11 PM

Pacal

So this finally got to FSTDT. This is a repellant stew of petty / idiot moralizing. Talk about straining at nats and ignoring the beam in your own eye. This made me so furious I did a whole posting about it on my Blog.
http://fdbgasrgq.blogspot.com/2009/11/moral-cretinism-redux-in-past-posting-i.html

Nice to see that some Fundamentalists are up front in their worship of Satan.

11/25/2009 4:55:28 PM

Pacal

So this finally got to FSTDT. This is a repellant stew of petty / idiot moralizing. Talk about straining at nats and ignoring the beam in your own eye. This made me so furious I did a whole posting about it on my Blog.
http://fdbgasrgq.blogspot.com/2009/11/moral-cretinism-redux-in-past-posting-i.html

Nice to see that some Fundamentalists are up front in their worship of Satan.

11/25/2009 4:55:35 PM

JSS

Depart from me you accursed! To the fire prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me no food, was thirsty and you gave me no drink. A prisoner and you did not visit me, escaped from Nazis, and you lied to them so I would escape a horrible death.

GOTT MIT UNS! Such is the motto of AiG.

11/25/2009 7:25:01 PM

Ruana

Thank you, Bodie Hodge, for such a neat response to the "Well, if you atheists don't believe in God, why do you bitch about him so much, huh, huh?" line.

11/26/2009 10:18:41 AM

John_in_Oz

That Link had this ad on it for a book about the Fundies losing youth. It's reassuring to hear such hopeful news for the next generation:

Already Gone

In the first scientific study of its kind, the “Beemer Report” reveals startling facts discovered through 20,000 phone calls and detailed surveys of a thousand 20–29 year olds who used to attend evangelical churches on a regular basis, but have since left it behind.

In this powerful book, popular author Ken Ham and consumer behavior research/analyst C. Britt Beemer combine to reveal trends that must be dealt with now . . . before we lose another generation!

11/26/2009 11:07:51 AM

Vesper

WAIT! MY FELLOW FUNDIE HUNTERS! BE KIND HERE!

A secular philosopher some of you may have heard of makes almost the exact same argument to the duty of truth without mentioning god.

No one has pointed out that this problem was presented to Kant, and his answer was that we all owe a duty to truth even to a murderer at the door?

I'm disconcerted that no one else makes this connection. There actualy is a rational and valid argument to the duty of truth. Of course Kant was a big fan of ambiguous and misleading truths as a replacement for lies.

11/26/2009 11:02:16 PM



Yes, but Lot disobey the commandment which forbids rape to protect three strangers. ummmm, strange double standards.

11/27/2009 2:38:44 AM

Vince

and yet you blame atheists and satan and such for everything.

11/27/2009 4:55:20 PM

Zap

I can't even joke about this, it makes me too sick.

11/27/2009 6:31:06 PM

Caustic Gnostic

What storymoron said.

11/27/2009 11:57:57 PM

Drax

Except if the Nazis find Jews hiding in your house, you're in big trouble too.

Do you seriously expect us to believe that you wouldn't lie to save yourself in that situation? That you would go to a concentration camp before telling a lie?

I think you're, erm, lying.

11/28/2009 1:40:36 AM

John

So, is the greater good trusting God when He says not to lie or trusting in our fallible, sinful minds about the uncertain future?

But the Bible doesn't say not to lie. It says "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." Also, the Bible doesn't say you should throw up your hands and trust God to take care of things. Did Jesus throw himself off the pinnacle of the temple?

11/28/2009 2:16:04 PM

Professor M

@ Vesper --

Kant was also a fan of worthless apologetics when it came to how he arrived at some of his conclusions, especially regarding extensions of the categorical imperative -- is the "maxim" being followed by someone who throws Nazis off the track of their victim following the maxim that "lying is acceptable generally" or the maxim that "truth is preferable except where to be truthful is to be complicit in murder"? Kant apologists went to great lengths to try to justify Kant's position -- the most popular version among Christians was to insist that "Providence" would never allow a situation where someone would have to choose between honesty and preventing a murder. That claim was pretty much blown out of the fucking water by the Shoah at the very latest; it seems Bodie never got the memo (or just has a short memory when the victims are people he doesn't approve of).

11/28/2009 2:31:17 PM

moose

In my minds eye, I see a person named Bodie, walking down the street. He is wearing a shirt with a picture of a bible on it, with an arrow pointing up at the face of Bodie and a sign that says: I'm with stupid.

11/29/2009 8:49:05 PM

ecoline

Wow. That afforded me a sickening insight into your swamp of a brain.
Remind me to snitch you to the nearest authorities should you ever be wanted for whatever.

11/30/2009 3:52:13 AM

ecoline

"Talk about straining at nats and ignoring the beam in your own eye."

Straining at the National Association of Teachers of Singing with a beam in my eye? Lay off the acid, deary. Delusions aren't fun.

11/30/2009 3:54:28 AM

Dr. Novakaine

You people lie ALL THE FUCKING TIME to push your selfish, discriminatory, unreasonable agendas, but when it comes to actually SAVING LIVES, suddenly you have to follow that commandment as strictly as possible? Don't ever call your religion one of peace and love again if that's what you think.

12/1/2009 2:42:34 PM



Besides, whether one lied or not may not have stopped the Nazi solders from searching the house anyway.

Ah the neighbor that doesn't report domestic abuse because "it's between husband and wife" while in reality is just too scared to get involved.

12/1/2009 2:47:00 PM

GigaGuess

However, if said people were rounding up the Xians, he'd likely expect the people hiding him to lie their asses off. Correct?

12/1/2009 4:57:41 PM

Nowonmai

So, save your own skin, even if it means killing someone else? Wow, not very Christian of you all.

12/1/2009 5:16:43 PM

JB Mason

"Even Satan could not touch Peter without Christ’s approval"

So, according to their theology, everything they blame Satan for happens only with Christ's approval.

Awesome.

1/14/2010 6:14:19 PM
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