Separation of Church and State is not a good thing; if the State fully separates from the Church then the state is going to go, all you have to do is look at Communist Russia.
41 comments
Correlation /= causation.
Besides, if the State fully integrates with the Church then the *Church* is going to go. Just look at the history of the Catholic Church.
Remember what happened in Europe in the middle ages when there was no seperation of church and state? The Founding Fathers didn't want that to happen in the US, and for good reason. If they allowed no seperation between church and state then what happened in Salem could well be happening even today. But then again you Fundies have shown that you'd love to execute people on charges of witchcraft. In fact you guys would love to execute homosexuals, human/women's rights activists, followers of other religions, atheists, agnostics and freethinkers, those who disagree with and/or question you and educated folk.
The Founding Fathers were smart enough to kill the monster that is religious police states before it got too big.
The union of church and state is invariably bad for both church and state.
Besides, aren't you the ones who don't trust the government to mail a letter, let alone touch health care? And you want them running your religion?
And isn't the ethos of any religion about personal responsibility? I.e. "You go to hell if you don't do this, this and this"? How are people going to get to Heaven if that decision is taken from people and they're simply forced to do X and believe Y?
Yes because in our country we don't have, say, special documents drawn up by a group of revolutionists that state everyones' rights and what the government can and cannot do.
You know what happens when we don't have separation of church and state? I'll post yet another pic...
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"Separation of Church and State is not a good thing;"
Jefferson thought it was a damned fine idea. I'm going to have to defer to him on this rather than you.
"if the State fully separates from the Church then the state is going to go, all you have to do is look at Communist Russia."
Say what?
Communism is a flawed ideology on many levels. Not being religiously oriented is not one of them.
The USSR just shows us that even stripping the "religious" part out of "oppressive, dictatorial, religious, doctrinally-driven regime" doesn't make the result all that much better.
Learn your history better, please. Communist Russia worshipped their leaders. Not really an atheistic environment.
Church and state have been separated for as long as the US of A has existed, numbnut. You trying to get them connected during the fifties and nineties doesn't count.
I don't get why these american fundies see everything as communist russia.
Geuss that Best way to keep America from changing is to scare the dumb people.
So whats that 75% of americans?
Not trying to be an ass, but seems like to many of them are more then just incoherent.
In Soviet Russia, the Church practically WAS the state.
Somehow, I think mandating that every household have a portrait of Stalin in it stops being a government and becomes a religion.
Or Sweden. After all, Sweden is not only really secular, but has legalized assisted suicide AND gay marriage. And as we all know, Sweden has completely collapsed...oh wait, no it hasn't.
Russia is not communistic, it is an autocratic police state.
They have free trade, corruption, murders, freedom of religion....just like you at home, wherever you may live.
There must be a similar law to Godwin's law that has to do with communists.
And the state is fully separated from any churches, or at least is supposed to be.
And funny how separation deniers always want the church running the government, but never want the government running the churches. It's also funny how they never think about their church being run & regulated by the government.
Actually Communist Russia, specifically Stalin, didn't seek to eradicate religion so much as to replace it. They wanted an unquestioning loyalty to a supreme being. The Communists just wanted that supreme being to be the head of state, not god. In a way you could argue that the USSR didn't have separation of church and state. It just didn't have a previously recognized religion like Christianity.
I can't cite chapter and verse, but IIRC the 1977 version of the USSR Constitution (section 2?) did in fact have freedom of religion.
But yeah, of all the things to use as some kind of historical example that's a flying leap right there...
We in the UK have Separation of Church & State. Religion has no place in the House of Commons - certainly not in the political parties (it's seen as a sure-fire vote-killer, otherwise). We're still here.
And the Czech Republic (according to EU surveys & polls) is the least religious country in Europe. It's still there, especially after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Your call, Joseph.
@Zimmer
"In Soviet Russia, the Church practically WAS the state."
In Soviet Russia, God worships YOU!
X3
First of all, Russia wasn't communist. It was the USSR, and they were socialist.
Unless, you know, you're unaware of the fact that USSR stands for United Soviet Socialist Republics.
The church was part of how they ran things, and even if it had not been, I highly doubt it would have been a huge factor in the collapse of the USSR. They had a great deal of other things that doomed them to collapse.
Also--correlation is not causation. We need to seperate church and state or else we get places like Iran.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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