New Irish Blasphemy law
A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding 100,000.
“Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.”
Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may issue a warrant authorising the Garda Síochána to enter, if necessary using reasonable force, a premises.
54 comments
If this law is going to use the way it was worded, will polytheists be allowed to call blasphemy on monotheists and vice-versa?
I mean, I could technically call blasphemy on the whole of Christianity for taking my holidays and gods and turning them into Christian holidays and saints. I won't, though, since I'm much too easy-going to care about getting upset over the particulars of another person's beliefs or lack thereof; I'm just curious about whether or not I could do it.
@ Jerusalem
@ #1104202
I don't know how it's going to play out, whether it's going to go heavily Christian (based on the Judges) or if the most heavily lined pockets will win, or if it will all explode in their face.
Farewell, freedom of speech.
Can you say ANYTHING at all, with a law like that? There's probably someone somewhere who gets offended if I say "Lousy weather today", as God/Allah/Thor gives us the weather we deserve, and questioning Him is an offense of the gravest manner to this person.
"and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage"
This clause here means that unless you intend to blaspheme and cause trouble, you cannot be charged with blasphemy. Thus the mere exsistance of multiple religions or varying opinions are not blasphemous in nature. Further, provided that no publication is made as a direct unsubstantiated attack on a religion, all publications are allowed. Thus you can write an athiest book, you just cant attack christianity directely within it. However you can present the issue of flaws within christianity.
Further, the blasphemous matter is related to all religions, meaning that christian who go on about "them evil muslims" would be found guilty of blasphemy.
If atheism is a religion, and Christianity isn't, as so many Christians claim, does that mean that Irish Christians can be fined for offending atheists?
The Roman Catholic Church is a vile toad that has squatted on the face of Ireland for too many centuries. The influence of the Church on the state has been and continues to be wholly pernicious, corrupting, and antithetical to the development of Ireland as a free and united nation. The Church, in short, is a criminal and anti-Irish organisation, and if Gardai want to enter any premises with force, they can start with St Mary's Pro-Cathedral.
That offensive enough, Bertie?
So going by the letter of the law, the Bible and the Koran are now both illegal in Ireland?
I'm fucking ashamed of my Irish heritage right now.
"“Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion"
So next time an Irish newspaper reports an attack by Somali "pirates", all I need do is gather a few Pastafarians together to express outrage and we get them fined? You know, I bet there might be a liberal lawyer or two in the emerald isle who would do such a thing pro bono .
Perhaps if every pagan was "offended" by each repeat of The Wicker Man (the original, not the Nicholas Cage version, everyone ought to be offended by that), every Satanist filed suit over The Devil Rides Out , every spiritualist over Poltergeist , every Jedi over Caravan of Courage , etc. they'd quickly figure out the subtle flaw in their new law.
"Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion "
But Christianity is a relationship , right? So it isn't covered.
"thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion"
Wouldn't this favour religions where the adherents can organize mass protests? I mean, I can't imagine Wiccans raising hell on the streets over some statement by a preacher.
The law was compelled because of something in the Constitution that some bright boy spotted. I simply cannot ever see it being enforced in any meaningful way. So all you fundies can cease your panting for victims. You won't get them. Public opinion in Ireland is not well disposed to religion, especially after the recent release (last May) of the Ryan Report on Clerical Sex Abuse of Children in the Dublin Diocese. So this is one damp squib.
Besides, Ireland has more than enough to worry about with drug and gang crime, and a financial crisis second only to Iceland's.
This legislation is dead in the water before it's ever invoked.
]And Muslims can huff and puff as much as they wish. They are not recognised by the 1937 Constitution, so the law cannot apply to them, or to Hindus, likewise excluded. BTW, the exclusion was not done on sectarian basis. The issue of Muslims or Hindus did not come up at the time. They were all impossibly far away and out of mind. Any judgement in respect of religions not specified in the Constitution would have to be declared unconstitutional.
Besides, go to any Irish pub and you will hear the most colourful blasphemies. The law would be swamped by a surfeit of cases - enough to bring the whole legal framework to a standstill, unless there was selectivity. That would be grounds for appeal, that would cause a greater logjam... see where this is leading? The matter will be left to rot quietly.
Do they recognize the Wiccan or other Pagan groups there (under law) as religions? Can a Christian priest run down Islam without recourse still? Law says no.
This is gonna be a shitstorm. Ireland of all places should see the danger of such a law.
Will this mean a rewritting of the Irish history to ignore the long war between two Christian factions?
Is it "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion" to point out that they have no evidence or reason beyond wishful thinking to believe in God, Jesus, salvation, heaven, hell or resurrection of the dead?
Oh fuck Ireland twice on Tuesday, this is fucking stupid. You just took the lead from USA in christian stupidity and that is one hell of a feat!
If you don't understand how much of a failure your and others religion is, when you need legal protection for the bullshit they spew, I can't really help you, you just ended up on my do-not-travel-to-list. And I even had a spot on medical school in Dublin and have had great affection for Ireland, fuck that!
@David B.
Honestly, I would love to see it happen. Have a litany of Non-Christian cases picking apart every "blasphemy" they can find to show them the folly of this law. Either they'll be forced to tip their hand, or strike the law.
Except for a couple of aging nuns without a sense of humour I can't see many Irish people giving a monkey's about this.
Maybe next time I go to Ireland I should wear a t-shirt saying 'Jesus Christ slept with Mary Magdalene'. If the Garda insist I remove it then I'll reveal 'Jesus Christ fucked Mary Magdalene up the arse' written on my chest. I'll tell them it's in permanent ink and ask if they'd prefer I put the t-shirt back on.
But more seriously, this blasphemy law is a retrograde step for the country. If it isn't just ignored it'll be challenged so blatantly that the Garda and the courts will be too embarrassed to do anything about it.
“that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.”
I just reread this.
And then came another thought. If you're pulled over in Ireland and the cop comes up and says you're 8 miles over the speed limit and you say "Jesus Christ, are you kidding?"
That's taking the lors's name in vain which is blasphemous in Catholic edicts.
Shitstorm
"Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may issue a warrant authorising the Garda Síochána to enter, if necessary using reasonable force, a premises."
What? Any premises?
@ Xotan: Used right, this could crack a hole in the 1937 Constitution and sink the fecking thing, and good riddance. It's time Ireland left the past behind, and forgot about 1916, and De Valera, and Fianna Fail, and the dead Irish language, and all the rest of the hoary old green bollox, and started living in the 21st century.
You guys know what's most terrifying? I read a news article about this on BBC, and I quote:
"The government says it [the anti-blasphemy law] is needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs. "
I dunno, maybe everyone knew this already, but I didn't. I don't pay much attention to news of Ireland. In any case, it's absolutely outrageous.
Ok, while being deliberately abusive and offensive (to anyone; I'm looking at you, fundies) is kinda a dick move, it's really not something that does, or should, fall under purview of the LAW...
From what I can gather, the Minister who introduced this was not pressed by ANY religious party to do so. There was even a priest on the RTE news (Irelands national tv station) saying that it was unneccesary.
There's a group on facebook called "Yes, I'm Irish, but I'm leaving ASAFP because of the Blasphemy Law!"
"Blasphemous matter" is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage."
Four Words: Dave Allen. "Father Ted".
This is exactly why I will never go to Ireland. I like my freedom of speech, and that said, fuck you, fuck your filthy jebus, fuck the catholic church, fuck the sith pope, and may god be less. :P
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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