louislois

Evolution and ambiogenesis are two different fields of study, numbnuts.

2/1/2010 9:38:00 AM

louislois

Double post. Apologies.

2/1/2010 9:38:26 AM

illuzion30

Meh: Regurgitating propaganda and not actually thinking for himself. Nothing new here.

My question: do they get this garbage from the pulpit? What is the primary distribution source for such misinformation? I hesitate to guess it's the internet, given that most knuckleheads aren't very technically savvy (not that I'd be surprised if it were... e-mail, perhaps?).

2/1/2010 9:38:45 AM

David B.

"What I'm saying is even that first simple cell is so complex that the probability of it being created by accident is less likely than the probability of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and creating a 747."

But slightly more probable than a fundie blowhard racing through a field of facts and not creating a strawman, apparently.

If you want to know how evolutionists explain the origin of the cell, you might try skipping your usual creationist websites and instead reading either of John Maynard Smith and Eörs Szathmary's books on the subject, Major Transitions in Biology (detailed, undergraduate level), or The Origin of Life (a simpler, pop-sci treatment of the same material).

2/1/2010 9:43:30 AM

Sweet Fancy Moses

What are you going to be saying when we find life on other planets, quite possibly Europa? Did God put those there for absolutely no purpose, or is there some other means for complex life to come about?

2/1/2010 9:46:29 AM

John

Bottom line is- they don't know, so they attribute it to an accident.

Bottom line is- they don't know, so they speculate that it might have been an accident. Scientists are limited to determining how the natural laws of the universe work. The question of what God does is a problem for the priest and the theologian. Scientists will turn the question of abiogenesis over to them when they've exhausted all natural explanations - something they're not even close to doing yet. Jumping to the conclusion that "God did it" before examining other alternatives is the attitude that held us back for most of the Middle Ages.

2/1/2010 9:49:46 AM

MrsYoungie

Fundie phrases that are so tired that I never ever want to hear them again:

Adam and Steve
747 in a junk yard
Grampa isn't a monkey
(followed by har-de-har-har)

They are not clever, and are most certainly not original.

2/1/2010 9:50:25 AM

Berny

Again with the fucking tornado in the junkyard. When these idiots latch on to a bad analogy they don't let go, do they?
Again for the n^th time, halfwit. Inanimate garbage in a junkyard is not, nor has it ever been alive, it doesn't reproduce, and none of the parts have a special affinity for combining together every time they get near each other (something certain atoms and molecules do regularly).
Also, evolution is not about the origin of life, that's abiogenesis, so your analogy is wrong and misplaced.

2/1/2010 9:56:52 AM

aaa

If i got a penny every time i heard that old crap, i'd have enough money to hire the USMC to kick your ass.

2/1/2010 9:59:56 AM

breakerslion

"What I'm saying is even that first simple cell is so complex that the probability of it being created by accident is less likely than the probability of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and creating a 747."

First, wrong.
Second, "low probability" means, "unlikely", not "impossible".
Third, molecular chemistry and biology do not behave like a random force in a junkyard.

YERRRR OUT!

2/1/2010 10:00:37 AM

Quantum Mechanic

You just failed elementary reality. Organic molecules occur in nature. Airplanes do not. Deal with it.

2/1/2010 10:00:41 AM

Canadiest

This is from the pulpit, or a guest speaker at the church or televised creationism. The '747 from a junkyard' gambit was old when Hovind started using it.

Where had your God come from when there was nothing? Creationism states there was nothing and in that nothing an all-powerful God who created everything from nothing. Science never stated there was nothing

And look at the hurdles the Evolution side has to jump. They want them to state when, where and how the first organisms developed. the how has an answer, evolution, we KNOW, FACT that things have changed over time, humbler beginnings is the answer.90 percent of everything thats ever lived on this planet is gone.

2/1/2010 10:06:18 AM

Smilodon

They can't even come up with new analogies anymore? That's just pathetic.

2/1/2010 10:06:47 AM

Ah, the 747 argument. "I can't think of an actual reason why evolution is wrong, so I'm going to regurgitate an analogy that doesn't actually apply to the situation".

2/1/2010 10:09:58 AM

SleepNeed

Read The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins (yes, the very same Dawkins who wrote The God Delusion.) It destroyed your 747 argument quite well.

2/1/2010 10:15:52 AM

Ketzu

I'd really lilke to see the calculations for those two probabilities. Really!

But to prove something impossible with probability, you have to show it's possibility is 0, not it is "lower than". Anything hast a possibility >=0, so what?

2/1/2010 10:21:47 AM

Eden

What is more probable?
That first lipid microspheres were created in an ocean full of organic matter and got more and more complex and finally evolved into multicellular organism
or that a divine entity (of which you cannot explain how it came to be) created earth and all life in its entirety and afterwards wrote (or inspired) a book about it (a book which btw. is full of contradictions with itself as well as with acheological/geological evidence).
(A divine entity which btw. remains absolutely silent nowadays (despite biblical records about said divine entity talking to humans very often), aside from events which are sometimes explained as wonders by its followers, which however are easily explainable by natural means and also happen to "unbelievers")

2/1/2010 10:24:08 AM

Lucilius

"Squawk! I'm a parrot! Squawk! I'm a parrot. Who's a pretty fundie? Squawk!"

2/1/2010 10:25:25 AM

JohnTheAtheist

The 747 argumnent again? It just shows your ignorance. Evolution is a cummulatve process. The purpose of the theory is remove the need for the 747. No leaps of organization are required anywhere, very small steps over huge spans of time.

2/1/2010 10:31:15 AM

Dan Onymous

Great, let's see the maths then.

2/1/2010 10:36:24 AM

Doubting Thomas

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.....
Deteriorata! Deteriorata!

Go placidly
Amid the noise and waste.
And remember what comfort there may be
In owning a piece thereof.

Avoid quiet and passive persons
Unless you are in need of sleep.

Rotate your tires.

Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
And heed well their advice,
Even though they be turkeys.

Know what to kiss.....and when!

Consider that two wrongs never make a right
But that THREE.........do.

Wherever possible, put people on hold.

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Remember the Pueblo.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

Know yourself.
If you need help, call the FBI.

Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you.
That lemon on your left, for instance.

Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.

Fall not in love therefore;
It will stick to your face.

Gracefully surrender the things of youth:
The birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
And let not the sands of time
Get in your lunch.

Hire people with hooks.

For a good time call 606-4311;
Ask for "Ken."

Take heart amid the deepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.

And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god
Whatever you conceive him to be---
Hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.

With all its hopes, dreams, promises and urban renewal
The world continues to deteriorate.

GIVE UP!

Reprise

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

2/1/2010 10:40:50 AM

Giveitaday

And as for my reference to life beginning from an accident, that's what evolutionists attribute it to

Evolutionary theory in and of itself does not speculate or postulate any scenario for the origins of life as such things fall outside the purview of evolutionary theory.

they have many "accidental" theories...

There are may ideas and speculations, but no actual theories.

Lightning striking inorganic material floating on the ocean.

Doubtful, for no other reason than the fact that life likely arose from organic material rather than inorganic material.

Bottom line is- they don't know

No, we don't, but we don't claim to either. It may be impossible to know without knowing the exact chemical and atmospheric conditions of early earth.

so they attribute it to an accident

No, not even close. Spontaneous mabye, but hardly something that could be "accidental". Even your example of lightning jumpstarting life in the ocean isn't "accidental".

What I'm saying is even that first simple cell is so complex

But you want people to believe that it was designed and created by an infinitly more complex "god", that convenietly doesn't seem to need a creator of it's own. Talk about double standards.

the probability of it being created by accident is less likely than the probability of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and creating a 747.

No, the probability of life coming into existence is 1. It has happened and the evidence is all around you.

2/1/2010 10:45:15 AM

GodotIsWaiting4U

Except that's NOT the dominant theory of how abiogenesis occurred anymore. We've actually managed to make abiogenesis occur under laboratory conditions, but the newspapers won't run it because they don't care. The media thrives on controversy; it's not about to kill one.

2/1/2010 11:06:13 AM

Crocz

What Fred Hoyle's saying is even that first simple cell is so complex that the probability of it being created by accident is less likely than the probability of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and creating a 747.

Fixed!

2/1/2010 11:08:00 AM

Mister Spak

"What I'm saying is even that first simple cell is so complex that the probability of it being created by accident is less likely than the probability of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and creating a 747."

What is the probability that a god able to create a universe will be created by accident?

2/1/2010 11:11:08 AM