thrillobyte #fundie

thrillobyte #fundie city-data.com

I think making a comparison between God and Hitler/Stalin is grievous. God CANNOT commit an injustice under ANY circumstances, regardless of how unjust it might appear to us mortals. We see God condemning humans to eternal torment and pass judgement on Him without first recognizing that their crime, the total rejection of Jesus' precious sacrifice---God's own "flesh and blood" so to speak---is an unspeakably heinous act of cosmic proportions, fully deserving of ET. In terms of comparing the value of gifts, someone who rejects a drunk's gift of his p*sspot cannot even begin to be compared to someone slinging the King of Sweden's gift of a 1000 YO family heirloom into a cesspool. And yet, that last act cannot even be called infinitessimal, so minute is it in comparison with the rejection of Jesus.

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old comment by SleepNeed

I think making a comparison between God and Hitler/Stalin is grievous.

I disagree. They all have committed mass murders, though Hitler and Stalin are real figures.

God CANNOT commit an injustice under ANY circumstances, regardless of how unjust it might appear to us mortals.

So all those babies that where killed in Noah's flood deserved to die? That's pretty harsh.

We see God condemning humans to eternal torment and pass judgement on Him without first recognizing that their crime, the total rejection of Jesus' precious sacrifice---God's own "flesh and blood" so to speak---is an unspeakably heinous act of cosmic proportions, fully deserving of ET.

Let's have a hypothetical tribe in the mountains of Mongolia, lets call them the Monga that nobody has ever talked to before. John Monga is a good person and follows every single word of the bible, though he never read nor heard of a single word of it and he has never been baptized for in his faith there is no such a thing. He dies like we all do.

So he gets sent to hell because he's a victim of where he was born and never hearing of the Judo-Christian God?

In terms of comparing the value of gifts, someone who rejects a drunk's gift of his p*sspot cannot even begin to be compared to someone slinging the King of Sweden's gift of a 1000 YO family heirloom into a cesspool. And yet, that last act cannot even be called infinitessimal, so minute is it in comparison with the rejection of Jesus.

What the hell are you trying to say here? Also look again at my tribe example. If you never hear it, how could you reject it and thus be punished for rejecting it?

old comment by RPJ

FFMpirate: "And how come your god gets a free pass? Shouldn't we hold him accountable for his atrocities?"

To fundies, God exists above logic and reality. He is not a unit of the universe; the universe is a unit of him. Their worldview is not based on physical reality, but in God. Therefore, to judge him by mortal standards of what is good (such as not killing, baby-raping, destroying towns etc) is incomprehensible. Humanistic thinking would hold that actions which better humanity are moral, but theistic thinking holds that the god is moral.

Therefore, if the god demands baby-rape, human sacrifices, or burning towns, it is moral. Reality and humanistic values simply are not relevant to the calculation.

"God CANNOT commit an injustice under ANY circumstances, regardless of how unjust it might appear to us mortals." God cannot be judged within the confines of realuty, because god supercedes reality.

old comment by Eden

God CANNOT commit an injustice under ANY circumstances, regardless of how unjust it might appear to us mortals

With other words,
everything god does is just by definition,
no matter how unjust it may appear,
even if he orders large scale genocides and enslavements (like written in the old testament)

We see God condemning humans to eternal torment

We don´t exactly see him doing anything...
everything you believe about heaven and hell stems from things written in the bible, as well as human imagination

the total rejection of Jesus' precious sacrifice

What Jesus according to the bible went through
was not worse than the things many other humans went through. Most people who were condemned to death by crucifixation suffered for more days than Jesus on the cross before finally dying. Also, if your beliefs in heaven and hell are right, then Jesus short visit in hell was nothing, compared to the eternal suffering of all the other souls there.

The king of sweden wouldn´t torture me for the rest of my life, if Irejected some kind of gift by him. In fact I wouldn´t call a king who tortures me for eternity (or a very long time) just for rejecting a gift by him a just king. I would rather think of him as some kind of tyrant. The more if said king doesn´t even show any signs of his existence and appear personally to give me this gift, but rather leaves just obscure texts hinting at his existence and said gift, texts which may be genuine or may be pure fabrications.

old comment by Karlsbad

This is why I am not only an agnostic, but a misotheist. How could anyone with a shred of moral integrity support an entity that considers not worshipping it an infinitely evil act, worthy of an eternity of torture? Furthermore, the only way God could be called "beyond committing injustice" is if you consider him to be the arbiter of right and wrong. The Euthyphro Argument plays some serious havoc with that suggestion.

Arctic Knight: Well said. Assuming said story was true, it was Judas who made the real sacrifice. Though if God was planning it all from the start, as the last supper seems to imply, it's more like Judas was sacrificed and then punished for it as well. Either way, Jesus' "sacrifice" was still quite trivial.

old comment by

So, what happened to the oh-so-forgiving God?

Also, I have nothing but contempt for the notion that there one type of "Good" that we humans can understand (the kind that applies to us), and one type that we can't (the type that applies to God). "Good" is a label that applies to those acts that fit in its definition. If something doesn't fit, it's not Good, period. If it's something you don't understand, then find a new Label to use until you do understand it.

@ender

One thing I never understood about gods is why do they need worship at all? Imagine if (when?) we manage to create (artificial) sentient life - would we expect it to worship us?

There are plenty of Assholes that would. Most fundies in particular.

old comment by Joe Mama

God punishing us for rejecting his so-called gift is like a stalker killing a woman for rejecting the roses he sent to her.

Let's face it, most people wouldn't enter into a marriage to someone who says, "Love me and marry me or I'll kill you," but they will happily join a religion and worship a being that says, "worship me or I'll torture you for eternity."

And frankly, I don't ever remember signing any contract which requires me to worship a god to get eternal paradise, and if I don't keep my end of the contract then I suffer eternal torment. But a god forcing everyone on earth into this agreement against their wishes is totally unjust and unfair.

old comment by Mrs. Antichrist

I think the majority of Hitler comparisons are ridiculous, but in the case of the Abrahamic god, they're right on the money. In fact, if there really is a hell and billions of people have and will be sent there, many of whom have only committed minor infractions or simply lacked belief in god, Hitler would be nothing compared to your blood-thirsty god. In fact, I'd say that a better comparison would be between people like you and the German masses during WWII; totally brainwashed, attempting to defend your leaders actions and preferring to preserve yourself instead of standing up for what is right.

Fortunately for all of us -- you included -- the god of the bible almost certainly does not exist. There might be some other higher power out there, but your god isn't it.

old comment by David B.

So if God told me to beat you up and steal all your money, you'd be okay with that? Since I am told to always obey God, what I do to you isn't unjust since it is God's will, which you say can't be unjust.

Hey wait, Hitler and Stalin's reigns of terror were God's will too, weren't they? Romans 13 says that all governments rule only because God established them so. So Hitler and Stalin couldn't be unjust either, since their actions were only those your omnibenevolent, omniscient God would have known would result from his "justly" placing them in positions of power.

So yes, comparisons between God, Hitler and Stalin are entirely reasonable. If God can never commit an injustice, then neither could have Hitler or Stalin.

old comment by misshani

"In terms of comparing the value of gifts, someone who rejects a drunk's gift of his p*sspot cannot even begin to be compared to someone slinging the King of Sweden's gift of a 1000 YO family heirloom into a cesspool. And yet, that last act cannot even be called infinitessimal, so minute is it in comparison with the rejection of Jesus."

I'd say a poor man giving you his only pisspot is a far greater gift than any king's heirloom. Not that I'd want it. But that pisspot represents giving up a necessity among what little he has. While kings have countless treasures they don't need and fully take for granted.

Didn't Jesus say something similar about a poor widow's tithe of two copper coins being worth more than all the gifts of the wealthy combined?

I suppose selling a king's treasures to feed and shelter and clothe the poor is your idea of slinging it into a cesspool?

When did Jesus say that?

Then again, what does that say about a king who takes the treasure of human life for granted? Callously destroying them, and throwing their souls into Hell?

old comment by Skyknight

This argument is of the decidedly ancient variety, dating back to St. Anselm of Canterbury. Keep in mind that in his time, the magnitude of a crime really did depend in part on the comparative social rank of victim and victimizer. One of the decidedly less pleasant aspects of feudalism, and the tribalism and essentialism it's bound up with--the lower classes came into being for the express purpose of serving the higher classes, just as mortal life was created solely to pamper the immortal. In a sense, individualism is a bit of a chimera to this, since you're not *supposed* to matter except as an implement of the tribe and/or the god who controls that tribe. This is fundamentalism's purpose, you might say: Efface the taint of individuality that thwart's the group identity's eternal, diamond-bound existence. Only one goal is supposed to matter, that the group be in living stasis.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@GigaGuess

"Oh, indeed. I find it equal parts amusing and frightening that they decry Muslim extremists, but they are a hair's breadth from being there themselves. All people like this need is someone to give it God's Stamp o' Approval, and suddenly, the world of unspeakable atrocities is open to them."

And it could've happened, with Becky Fischer's 'Kids On Fire School of Ministry'. Surely the US's equivalent of Pakistan & Afghanistan's Madrassas, and how they're a fertile breeding ground for Al-Qaeda.

Thank fuck for Rachel Grady and Heidi Ewing exposing this unimaginable evil within the bastion of freedom that is the USA, with their documentary film "Jesus Camp"*.

*- I strongly recommend watching this. Unlike the "Saw" & "Hostel" films, which are purely visual effects, "Jesus Camp" is infinitely more terrifying - because what you see on screen is real. Never mind Becky's camp being closed down on the strength of this film, I'm just surprised she wasn't arrested & tried on child abuse charges, what with the psychological torture she inflicted on those poor kids. The evidence is there for the world to see.

But at least said camp no longer exists, and Becky's reputation is equally nonexistent. And said documentary certainly helped in the later destruction of Ted Faggard, as he appeared in it too. Becky Fischer. Ted Faggard. Both nobodies now.

I love the smell of destroyed fundies in the morning. Smells like... victory.

[Col. Kilgore]

thrillobyte #fundie city-data.com

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