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Quote# 70977

A few years back, when I was in the US Congress, I took the Army to task for permitting the practice of Wicca on its bases, including at Ft. Hood in Texas. After speaking with a number of officers and military leaders, and meeting with several former military who adhere to the practice of Wicca, I was convinced that a belief in or practice of witchcraft, was not necessarily incompatible with the good order and discipline essential to a military lifestyle. However, one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend.

The US Air Force, at no less a prestigious location than the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, has taken the notion of religious tolerance to a new level, in creating an outdoor worship area for pagans. The site, apparently sacred to pagans, consists of an inner and an outer circle of large stones. I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live.

But I have to tell you, if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle.

Bob Barr, The Barr Code 61 Comments [2/23/2010 7:29:15 AM]
Fundie Index: 48
Submitted By: The L
WTF?! || meh
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It's weird because on one hand his tone is pretty much just that of a religious guy who's a little weirded out by newfangled stuff (he even mentions being more extreme and being convinced differently!) but he does that fundamentalist thing where you take two specific definitions of a word, apply them to someone who really sort of fits under a third, and then link them together.

2/23/2010 7:44:48 AM

Caretaker

Seconding the first post. He seems like an old-fashioned guy who was learning tolerance and understanding.

And then he got on the goddamn failboat.

Agh.

2/23/2010 7:49:54 AM



This doesn't seem that fundie to me. Any religion is pretty silly, and if someone takes it seriously, I'd be a bit worried about them being partly responsible for my life as well.

2/23/2010 7:52:01 AM

Null

And I'd worry about following a guy that practices ritualistic cannibalism every sunday morning. And what's wrong with Wiccans? Many of the wiccans that I've met tend to be pretty nice people, if a bit heavy on the woo. Christian fundamentalists, on the other hand, are some of the angriest people out there.

2/23/2010 7:53:16 AM

Upallnite

You think they are crazy? You should see the people that build whole buildings to sing in and light candles to make their wishes come true.

2/23/2010 7:54:18 AM

David B.

Why is it any weirder than praying for a magical zombie to descend from the sky and kill everyone but you and your friends who get to watch the show from paradise?

Or building a house for a supposedly omnipotent being who has never been seen and would not need one anyway, and not only collecting money on a weekly basis for its upkeep but puts a lightning rod on it to prevent it being struck down by that self same sky giant?

Hey, you're right Bob, distorting crap to fit your preconceived notions rather than learning anything that might challenge them is a lot of fun!

2/23/2010 7:55:02 AM

Blasphemina

Enjoy being known as an also-ran for the rest of your life, Bob.

2/23/2010 7:55:16 AM

Horsefeathers

"A few years back, when I was in the US Congress, I took the Army to task for permitting the practice of Wicca on its bases, including at Ft. Hood in Texas."

That's nice. And how'd that work out for you? See, the military--and damned near everyone else--ignores Congress for just about everything so you were wasting your time.

Even if they didn't ignore you, there's the First Amendment you moron. As a Congressman you should have been familiar with it. It's sort of important.

"After speaking with a number of officers and military leaders, and meeting with several former military who adhere to the practice of Wicca, I was convinced that a belief in or practice of witchcraft, was not necessarily incompatible with the good order and discipline essential to a military lifestyle. However, one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend."

Why would you wonder that?

"The US Air Force, at no less a prestigious location than the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, has taken the notion of religious tolerance to a new level, in creating an outdoor worship area for pagans."

Let me guess, they get to make use of an unused field at specified times, right? It's not like they built a pagan temple you moron.

"The site, apparently sacred to pagans, consists of an inner and an outer circle of large stones."

Oh, goodness! Stones you say!? That's terrible!

"I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious."

Yes, but no more so than building gigantic Gothic architecture monstrosities costing millions of dollars and dedicating them to worshiping a guy who was destitute his entire life, hung out with sinners and thought nobody should have more than anyone else.

Both are silly practices. The pagans are just less so.

"Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live."

I'm pretty sure that's not the definition of pagan with regard to religion. See, words can have various meanings. I know. What a strange concept, right?

"But I have to tell you, if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle."

Similarly, I would be quite concerned about following the orders of someone who regularly talks to the ceiling in attempts to communicate with an imaginary man in the clouds and who worships a zombie on a stick every Sunday.

That's not exactly the picture of mental health.

2/23/2010 8:00:03 AM



Hedonism is a lifestyle, not a religion. And you should have asked what he was dancing around the circle for; it may very well have been for something like asking for a good crop yield.

Also, fuck you. Our stones are every bit as sensical as building huge, expensive buildings to worship a God that supposedly advocates self-imposed poverty. At least we haven't turned a war into one huge missionary field day.

2/23/2010 8:01:06 AM

caustic gnostic

In the Air Force, we never follow officers into battle. We load up their aircraft and turn them loose.

2/23/2010 8:10:50 AM

aaa

Man, you should know better than this.

2/23/2010 8:41:04 AM

TGRwulf

So Wicca=Paganism=Atheism? o_O

That, plus the complete lack of understanding of Wiccan rituals and what Pagans belive proves you know nothing of any of these 3 things.

2/23/2010 8:43:13 AM

Sophie

I'd be worried too! All pagans are delusional wusses, certainly not fit for battle. Just like the Romans!

As for me, I'd feel much more comfortable following somebody who on a monthly basis symbolically consumes the blood and flesh of a dead man who actually isn't dead or a man because he's actually god but not god because he's god's son.

2/23/2010 8:53:56 AM

Churchy La Femme

So, stones in a circle are bad, but stones stacked on top of each other to make a church are good? I thought your God got upset when people tried to stack stones too high?

I've also seen plenty of church services with dancing in the aisles, and Christmas Eve services, where everyone carried a lighted candle, were quite well attended.

2/23/2010 9:01:07 AM

Raffello

No, instead you're forced to follow someone that thinks we're all going to get rapture-fied at any time. *eyeroll*

2/23/2010 9:01:25 AM

Slave To Uni


2/23/2010 9:02:53 AM

campbunny

A member of a rival cult every bit as ridiculous as yours? He should convert to the correct variety of kitsch and superstition!

2/23/2010 9:05:46 AM

Marc

Fortunately, the U.S. Military takes no notice of your opinions. I've been in the Navy for close to seven years now, and met several Pagans, several atheists (myself included), a couple of gays, as well as several Christians of various denominations. Each behaved quite well as a Sailor, or quite poorly. Their individual religious beliefs seemed to have very little to nothing to do with their behavior (except for the well-behaved ones, who felt that their beliefs required them to do well and be kind to others).

Basically, as I've said before, people are people. They will behave as humans no matter what they say they believe.

2/23/2010 9:12:45 AM

Mister Spak

"I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. "

What's more hilarious is an anti abortion traditional values senator who got his girlfriend pregnant, forced her to get an abortion, and paid for it. Then called the president a scumbag.


2/23/2010 9:34:11 AM

justaguy

OMG the stupid..it burns!!

I know he was in congress, so we must expect a certain level of ignorance...but is he really not capable of picking up a dictionary???

2/23/2010 9:41:10 AM

Panz

Ya rly bob?

I myself would think someone was loonier than Daffy Duck if they were kneeling in front of a stable in the middle east and praising a god for it myself.
But that's the good thing about being a christian, isn't it, you can look down on everyone else's religion and claim it's insane, stupid, and idiotic while defending yours as the only way that makes sense

2/23/2010 9:50:52 AM



As opposed to someone who ritually eats the body and blood of their deity, who sacrificed himself to himself to convince himself to change a law that he himself made? Yeah that makes SO much more sense than lighting a purely symbolic candle.

2/23/2010 10:22:32 AM

MDB

@caustic gnostic

Or, as an E-8 in the Air Force told me once,

"why did I enlist in the Air Force? Let me put it this way.

In the Army, the officer says to the enlisted man, 'take that hill!'

In the Navy, the officer says to the enlisted man, 'get in that turret!'

In the Marine Corps, the officer says to the enlisted man, 'storm that beach!'

But in the Air Force... the enlisted man says to the officer, 'good luck, sir!'"

2/23/2010 10:29:12 AM

Quantum Mechanic

Hey Bob.
My mind is my church.
Fuck you.

2/23/2010 10:30:44 AM

Mudak

Having attended various ceremonies conducted both in Pagan and Christian traditions, I can honestly say that the Pagans win hands down in terms of instilling hope, unity, community, and wisdom.

I still prefer atheism, but if someone said I had to choose between Wicca and Christianity, with no other options, the choice would be clear for me. Wicca FTW.

2/23/2010 10:32:12 AM
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