Quote# 71006

Just my thoughts on a subject.

If we consider abortion to be morally wrong on the level of murder, then it logically extends that we ought to punish the mother if she was complicit in the abortion process.

I got to thinking how law enforcement officials could prove beyong a reasonable doubt that an abortion had taken place, and the only conclusion I could come to is that women should be mandated to recieve maybe quarterly examinations of their uterus, under threat of jail if they refuse. Or maybe make pregnant women register and then if they "miscarry" then an exam will be ordered.

Women who have been found to have undergone abortion should be held as accomplices to murder, maybe conspirators as well, and then punished according to our preexisting laws on the subject.

If I really feel abortion is murder, then it necessarily follows that the people responsible for the murder ought to be punished. Retributive punishment will deter and influence women away from baby-producing activities, and hopefully reduce the amount of abortions.

Phronesis, Christian Forums 95 Comments [2/25/2010 8:23:07 AM]
Fundie Index: 115

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Higgs Boson

Without even looking at the context within the thread, this seems to be to be a shrewd argument against the self-righteous bleating of the pro-life crowd. If they honestly think that abortion is murder, then they ought to have no problem with these ideas.

I'm sure this is designed to show pro-lifers that they do not have the courage of their convictions and that they purposefully use inflammatory language to rally people to their side.

Let's hope I'm right...

2/25/2010 8:30:49 AM


Of course you realize this is unworkable, invasive, sick and just plain wrong. Oh, wait, you're a fundie, you don't have a proper moral compass. Sorry.

2/25/2010 8:31:30 AM


When will people realize that making stuff they don't like illeagal just makes the situation worse? Prohibition anyone??

2/25/2010 8:36:25 AM

Hardon Collider

Ever seen The Handmaid's Tale?

2/25/2010 8:37:08 AM

David B.

An alternative to Phronesis' suggestion would be to leave judgement in the hands of God, who is supposedly all knowing and therefore impossible to fool. Moreover, in his infinite wisdom he would never make a "false positive" conclusion of abortion so justice would be 100% assured.

Even better, any justification the mother might think she had for her actions would be examined by an omniscient and infallible being who is the epitome of mercy. So any "mitigating facts" she believes are relevant will be judged with the utmost fairness and as favourably as is possible without bending the truth.

So if we truly believe God is wise, just, forgiving and all-knowing, we should leave the judgement of these people in his hands and butt the f*** out of it.

Just saying..

2/25/2010 8:43:39 AM


Congratulations, your suggestion is the most horrible thing i have read today. I recommend you to go outside and play in traffic.

2/25/2010 8:43:50 AM

This is pretty clearly a Poe. The writer is mimicking nigh-exactly an argument that's been used to challenge and parody pro-life activists since like, last year.

2/25/2010 8:44:15 AM

Chancellor Gorkon

Wow. How about if a woman who is denied an abortion dies during childbirth? Then we will charge YOU with murder. How about it? Deal?


2/25/2010 8:48:26 AM


"Just my thoughts on a subject."

I already don't want to hear it.

2/25/2010 8:49:12 AM


The question is, why am I observing this guy with a Fundie index of -1?

Unless enough people think this is a Poe, that is.

2/25/2010 8:50:39 AM


When men are called in for inspection of their testicles two times a week, to check if they had masturbated (and thus killed millions of half-children), then I'll be willing to present my uterus for inspection too.

Information and readily available contraceptions reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and subsequently also the number of abortions.
It takes two to tango, you can't have "baby-producing activities" without there being at least one woman and one man present. Who's influencing the men away from these activities?

Laws are not made on the grounds of "morally wrong" but of legally wrong, i.e. things that hurt others in some way or other.

You have to be born to be a person. Check your Bible; when does it say that a child is accepted as a member of society?

2/25/2010 8:55:34 AM

Rebellion Dog

OK, let's talk about people who try to legislate narrow morality onto the lives of other people based on a bronze age text. How about that for a capital offense?

2/25/2010 9:01:23 AM


Can you imagine the image of the United States in other countries if this fantasy happened?

EDIT: Nevermind, obvious poe. Perfect spelling and grammar, and logical development of an idea, obviously intended to provoke and satirise.

2/25/2010 9:12:34 AM

Doubting Thomas

Why is it the people on the right decry a police state, but are always in favor of things that would make this country a police state? Patriot act, anyone? Now someone wanting pregnant women to register their fetus?

You know, it would be more effective and less costly if you would simply allow contraception and the information on how to use them widely available. But it's the nuts on the right who don't want contraception or abortions.

Why don't you fundies all just leave and go start your own country like you want? Then you could just pass laws making any sex outside of marriage illegal, and you could be just like the theocracies in the Middle East.

2/25/2010 9:14:24 AM


So what you're saying is "all women of child-bearing age are guilty. They have to prove their innocence."

Are you familiar with something called the Constitution?

2/25/2010 9:23:04 AM

Mookie Blaylock


The same people who would tell you jeebus hates big government is ready to commit to mandatory uterine examinations for all women, under threat of imprisonment.

Sounds to me like what this mook is really afraid of is losing control over women.

This isn't one of those funny-because-it's-so-stupid fundie claims. This one is downright offensive.

Edit: Ok, looking like a Poe. Still horrifying in that it's plausible that we'd actually hear arguments along these lines from real fundies.

2/25/2010 9:31:02 AM


I get it now...

They wear jackboots so they're less likely to twist their ankles goose-stepping down the rocky road of good itentions.

2/25/2010 9:34:26 AM


Gee, why stop at abortion? Let's get rid of all sorts of crimes. We could make everyone submit DNA samples and fingerprints and eliminate the 4th Amendment so cops can just walk into your house anytime they like and search your house and car to see if you're doing anything illegal. Or better yet, let's set up TV cameras in everybody's house so the FBI can watch us. We could give it a friendly-sounding name like "Big Brother". [/sarcasm]

2/25/2010 9:41:17 AM

I wonder if Phronesis is willing to pay for the extra cost of jails and those exams.

2/25/2010 9:43:56 AM


I like posts from Christian Forums. There's usually a few sane Christians on hand to argue with the fundy. It's nice to be reminded that not all Christians are raving morons.

I wonder if the people who actually agree with this stuff (even if this is a poe, they still exist) would be in favour of providing sterilisation to everyone who asks for it and promoting it as a way to avoid abortion? Probably not; then people would go round enjoying sex.

2/25/2010 9:48:48 AM



2/25/2010 9:53:06 AM


What about women whose lives are threatened by the pregnancy? Will the sentence get lessened for self defense? How about miscarriages? Involuntary manslaughter? Please, tell me how a cluster of cells that doesn't even have the physical capacity for sensation, let alone thought, is worth more than the mother carrying it?

2/25/2010 9:56:58 AM


Yeah, that'd be cheap to finance. No tax payers dollars going to waste there.

2/25/2010 10:21:49 AM

Retributive punishment will deter and influence women away from baby-producing activities, and hopefully reduce the amount of abortions.

Retributive punishment rarely deters anything.

2/25/2010 10:24:13 AM


There should be a fine for masturbation too. And a system of checks. Every sperm is sacred!

2/25/2010 10:39:15 AM

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