A discussion on the IMDB forum for the movie Fireproof inspired me to share this.
What does "submit" actually mean? Briefly, it means to yield authority. Is that really such a bad thing?
Now let's look at what the Bible says about wives in Ephesians 5 (the text that's at the center of all this business):
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
Three sentences. That's it. That's what all the fuss is about. Three measly little sentences. The way the Christian-bashers talk, you'd think there was a whole book of the Bible devoted to putting wives in their place.
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Fundie-t-English translator...
Hey, womenz, giving up your autonomy isn't that bad!
> The way the Christian-bashers talk, you'd think there was a whole book of the Bible devoted to putting wives in their place.
The funny thing is, the way the CHRISTIANS talk too, you'd think there was a whole book of the Bible devoted to putting wives in their place.
Once the idea is out there, it's hard to retract. It doesn't matter how long the passage is. It's all the justification you need, whether you're supporting or rejecting that particular idea. One badly chosen word can haunt you for life; one badly written book can have implications that stretch through millennia.
The fact that those three measly little sentences even exist is enough to make me vomit.
The fact that you are ignorant enough to be ok with them, is enough to make me want to kill you.
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
But neither Jesus nor the OT said any such thing. That "rule" was made up by Paul out of thin air. This is the guy who also wrote "[It is] good for a man not to touch a woman." and "For I would that all men were even as I myself [i.e., celibate]." Paul was a sexually dysfunction misogynist - the last person whose advice I would take on the relationship between man and woman.
Die Schliesslig Endlösung der Judenfrage.
That is also short and measly, but it was the headline for one of the most gruesome genocides we have ever seen.
I will submit to my husband just as much as my cat has submitted to me.
(In her mind I am her servant, who opens doors and cans for her.)
"Inerrant" means it's all equally important, no matter how brief or insane it is. Substitute "valid" if you want to nitpick, but be prepared to piss off your angry god if you make the wrong guess about what to ignore. That's the real "Jesusland" way!
Stripping someone of their rights and humanity is appalling enough, but to do so as if it's no big deal, nothing to get upset about, and with a dose of down home folksy-ness is just too much.
If I could I would kick you in the balls. Repeatedly. With steel-toed boots. Just to emphasize that yes, your message really is such a bad thing.
"Three sentences. That's it. That's what all the fuss is about. Three measly little sentences."
The Bible has less to say on homosexual relationships, though the topic still seems to be quite importaint in the eyes of many fundementalist circles.
(Darn! Doctor Whom beat me to it!)
Therefore, you can say anything you like, and as long as you keep it short, the message itself can be as disgusting as you want!
"Three sentences. That's it. That's what all the fuss is about. Three measly little sentences. The way the Christian-bashers talk, you'd think there was a whole book of the Bible devoted to putting wives in their place."
And yet there is just one sentence that can be interpreted as being about homosexuality being wrong, but the way most christian fundies go on about it, you'd think that was the most important message of the religion.
I think everybody's missing the point. The movie Fireproof totally sucked donkey balls. Kirk Cameron is a worse actor now than when he was on "Growing Pains." Guess sitting in front of a camera with Bananaman doesn't let him hone his skills.
The only reason I watched that movie all the way through was because I was visiting some Christian friends with my wife and they trotted out that movie with "This is such a great movie, you'll love it," and I had to be polite and watch the whole crappy thing.
Funny, then, since you admit that it's just three sentences out of the whole book, how you fundamentalists have used that tiny passage as the primary guiding principle for your marriages, church authority, and women's lives in general.
It's nice to see you admit what a pathetically tiny foundation fundie men have relied upon to retain power over women who are foolish enough not to see through such a transparent power grab.
How about the quote that says women are to remain silent in churches?
How about all the biblical women who are vilified for leading poor innocent men astray (Eve, Delailah and Jezebel come immediately to mind)?
How about the Benjamite concubine who was raped and mutilated in Judges?
How about Lot offering his virgins daughters to the gang rapists of Sodom?
Face it Jinx, your "three measly sentences" aside, the bible is a cesspool of anti-female propaganda.
@Dr. Shrinker
How about Lot offering his virgins daughters to the gang rapists of Sodom?
Elaboration: What about Lot, who offered his daughters up for wholesale gangrape by the incensed mob, and still being deemed righteous enough to be saved from the utter destruction of the town. I guess it's okay because his daughters got him drunk and had their way with him (Riiiiight.) It's not enough that he did it, but that God was apparently A-OK with it that makes the scripture all the more vile and misogynistic.
@Doctor Whom and Norman: I was tempted to make a comment on that, but opted to leave it alone. Good to know that I'm not the only one that thought that.
Submit means to yield but who or what one sumbits to may or may not have authority.
Submission is not always a bad thing, but submiting to characters in ancient fairy tales IS a bad thing. Submission to another person simply because he has a penis is a bad and ridiculous thing.
Three sentences? I can express the most vile and repugnant of thoughts quite clearly in one sentence. The number of sentences invovled is completely irrelevent.
Funny, there's less than that in the Bible about (possibly) masturbation...far, far less and it doesn't mention people turning into pillars of salt for doing it.
The Bible says lots of stuff that people don't follow anymore. Y'know, stuff like selling all your wordly goods and giving yourself to a life of charity and reflection.
Hey, doesn't the bible say you're supposed to submit to government powers, because governments are put in place by god?
And this government says that females being free and equal is a good thing...so kindly blow it out your mysogenic ass
"The way the Christian-bashers talk, you'd think there was a whole book of the Bible devoted to putting wives in their place."
There is. It's called the Old Testament. And as for the NT, one word: Paul.
Two reasons why your poisonous book should be legislated out of existence.
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And a whole bookful of reasons why I'm an Atheist.
Sexism is disgusting no matter how many sentences are involved.
If you're saying the man is the authority, then that's not an equal relationship. I don't care how you try to rationalize it. It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people, do try... If the woman ultimately has to yield to a man's decisions, then how is that equality? I doubt men would like to "yield authority" to the woman.
"Hitler was right"
- That's only three WORDS, so that should be completely innocent, right? Right? Nothing wrong there, just ignore it and move on, people.
(emph-ass-is added):
"What does "submit" actually mean? Briefly, it means to yield authority. Is that really such a bad thing? '
Oh, I dunno...:
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...you tell me.
PROTIP: God = Hitler. Therefore right -wing Fundamental ist Christianity - it's pastors/preachers, their 'God', and it's followers - no longer have the right to tell people what to do. We Atheists - via legislation in all normal, decent, civilised democratic countries/societies based on Rule of Law - have every right in the world to tell you & your so-called 'God' what to do. And he & you must yield to our superior authority; you must obey .
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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