Quote# 72270

It doesn't matter one bit to me since faith cannot be explained by science.

Science can only really explain what is observable in the natural world. It does not deal with the supernatural. Therefore whatever is natural, is theoretically, truth. But also, whatever is supernatural cannot be denied by science because it is outside the bounds of what science can measure. Faith is, therefore, above science.

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph_Botwinick, Baptist Boards 80 Comments [4/16/2010 1:45:59 PM]
Fundie Index: -48
Submitted By: CaseAgainstFaith

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Yes, exactly.

So you can see why your faith has no place in a science class, right? It's not worth discussing.

4/16/2010 1:48:32 PM


Unintentional honesty?

4/16/2010 1:50:29 PM

Apart from the last sentence this is absolutely correct.

So, meh.

4/16/2010 1:50:45 PM


I don't see the fundy in this. I think a lot of Christians subscribe to this belief and then go on with their everyday lives.

4/16/2010 1:51:13 PM

The L

Out of context, this is as "Meh" as it gets.

Faith is about belief in things that cannot be verified through physical evidence.

Science is about verifying things through physical evidence. The supernatural can be neither confirmed nor denied through science, pretty much by definition.

The only thing remotely fundie about this that I can see, is the fact that poor Joseph got banned for saying it.

4/16/2010 1:51:43 PM



4/16/2010 1:52:48 PM

Rumpshaker Slim

How is faith "above" science? Do you think your superior because you believe things without evidence?

4/16/2010 1:57:11 PM


The problem of course is that the moment the supernatural interacts with the natural world, it becomes falsifiable, and thus falls under the domain of science.

4/16/2010 1:59:47 PM

Doubting Thomas

So close, but yet so far. What you're forgetting is that supernatural beliefs are just that, beliefs. If science can't prove supernatural beliefs true, it doesn't mean they're "above" science and therefore true. In fact, if science can't prove them true there's really no good reason to believe in them.

4/16/2010 2:03:27 PM

I read about the afterlife

So you wouldn't mock me if I expressed belief in Unicorns and rainbow colored fairies?

4/16/2010 2:05:51 PM


But also, whatever is supernatural cannot be denied by science because it is outside the bounds of what science can measure.

Ya see, this is where we have a problem. Occasionally people try to put forward supernatural explanations about natural phenomenon. They reach a little bit too far and get their fingers chopped off. Science can deny those claims very easily.

4/16/2010 2:06:47 PM

Old Viking

Doin' pretty good till the end. The ambiguous use of "above" is subtle, but very unconvincing.

4/16/2010 2:22:14 PM


Science can only really explain what is observable in the natural world.

Or to be more accurate, science only tries to find natural explanations for what is observable. It is left to the tens of thousands of religions to invent their various supernatural explanations.

4/16/2010 2:35:55 PM

the old firm

What our Old Viking said.

4/16/2010 2:35:57 PM

Faith is, therefore, above science.

Science has taken man to the moon. Faith often takes man back to the Dark Ages.

Think I'll stick with science.

4/16/2010 2:36:08 PM

There's actually alot of respectable christians on that forum imo. Shame about the YC assholes.

4/16/2010 2:38:59 PM


Meh'd... the last sentence, eh, depends on what you mean "above", but if more people thought this way than extremists... well, we wouldn't have this site then.

4/16/2010 2:45:47 PM


I agreed with you until the very last sentence. SO CLOSE!!!

4/16/2010 2:55:30 PM


Besides the last sentence this is accurate. Faith cannot be explained by science, because it's faith. Science can only touch faith when it begins to edge into science's domain, like ID does.

4/16/2010 3:25:53 PM


I don't agree with him completely, but I'd take Joseph Botwinick above someone who didn't understand the demarcation he describes any day. Meh'd.

4/16/2010 3:26:38 PM


So since you feel that faith has nothing to do with science, you will stop trying to push it into science class, then?

Didn't think so.

4/16/2010 3:27:10 PM


This is not fundie, not even close. In fact, this is the stance that most reasonable Christians take. While the final sentence is a bit ambiguous, the gist of the quote isn't; this person is obviously advocating a sort of separation of church and science which is fine by me. As long as observable reality isn't being rejected in favor of faith I don't care if people want to put an unnecessary god on top of everything else.

4/16/2010 3:28:04 PM


Why do old people sign their posts on the internet? We can see your username on the right. Don't be obnoxious and sign every damn post in the thread.

EDIT: A lot of people seem to think there's nothing fundie about this, so BTW, I think that it's pretty fundie to define your god into a safe corner where he can't be touched by rational argument, by fiat.

4/16/2010 3:42:09 PM


I'm not following the "logic" here.

4/16/2010 4:20:47 PM


"....since faith can't be explained by science."

Uh, yes it has to do with the chemistry of the brain."

4/16/2010 4:44:20 PM

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