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#1166550
Saladin
@DOS
You don't think the Church should suffer any kind of consequence or punishment for child-rape, or that anyone should be held accountable (for child-rape). Ergo; you passively support child-rape. Also, why are you such a bitter, hateful cock? Also, child-rape.
6/10/2010 1:32:22 PM
#1166603
William_T_Goodall
It's a utopian ideal. I don't expect it to happen.
6/10/2010 6:19:14 PM
#1166646
The Jamo
Meh, just some idiot seeking attention. Let's move along.
6/10/2010 9:14:03 PM
#1166667
the old firm
OK, I'm late to the party and perhaps it has already been said, but here are my thoughts anyway:
I don't like most of the organized religions and I'm not sure if I believe in any kind of spiritual entity, higher being, God etc. But what I believe, is the following.
If we would ever take any kind of action as described above, we would only prove the persecution complex of the funda-mental-ists. And we would show, that we are as vile and self-righteous as they are.
They believe in their arrogance, that they know the will of God etc. and that all people should adhere to their beliefs and that this is the only way to live your life. Are "we" the same?
What about the many decent religious people of all faiths who keep their beliefs to them selfs and just want to live their lives?
Please remember: He who fights with monsters ...
6/11/2010 1:20:52 AM
#1166721
ergo
LOL
Logic police?
6/11/2010 9:22:11 AM
#1166730
dionysus
@William_T_Goodall
Well look who's here. I have to commend you on commenting here even though most people are against you. But that's about all I'll commend you on. Also, I wanted to say that it doesn't matter whether or not you think your idea is possible all that matters is that you WANT this draconian system. Anyway, since you're here you can answer some questions:
1) Why would you want send people to life in prison for simply being wrong?
2) Why do you consider censorship a legitimate tactic?
3) Given the track record of bans (i.e. Prohibition, the war on drugs, etc.), why would you even WANT to use such an approach?
4) When you say "religion should be banned", do you mean all religions including the peaceful ones like Buddhism or Jainism? Are you going to feel good about putting a Jain in prison?
5) Did you ever think about the religious people's families?
6) Are you intending on putting religious children into life imprisonment?
That's all I'll ask for now because I want to hear some damn answers.
6/11/2010 9:52:21 AM
#1166754
Brigged
Oh dear. I've just returned to read some further comments, and what I see is very disappointing. If one truly cannot see the difference between DOS and I, then evidently my appraisal of your (in these instances of saying 'your', I mean all of you) intellectual prowess was overly kind.
It seems that you prefer 'them' over 'us', and while at this moment your moral sensibilities unwarrantedly overestimates human worth (apparently Murdin has a problem with this. However, instead of choosing to simply examine the logically implicit claim objectively, he instead prefers to brush me off as a deluded psychic), you will come to see that the fate of the people whose side you seem to favour - or not believe in - will be terrible, as it always has been throughout history, and I assure you, your moral values will very quickly change then. The only difference I propose - the only one! - is that it be for the last time.
My ideology, which is shared with the most powerful men in the world, simply offers a means to finally end the bloody cycle that has been observed to perpetuate itself throughout the history of civilization. Here, you continue to overestimate human capabilities, preferring to believe that rationality will conquer all, despite ample evidence to the contrary. That you consider dwindling church numbers over a span of a few decades as evidece for anything is just sad. cont.
6/11/2010 11:08:38 AM
#1166755
Brigged
I do not see any real counter-arguments to my ideas. What I do see is people with beliefs demanding that their beliefs are correct because they are, and, frightened of the possibility of considering a perceived monster an intellectual equal, you throw up the very same defences so often used by the very fundamentalists you pity - the most insidious of which is the idea that my claims have no basis in the workings of reality and yet, when invited to examine these claims for yourself objectively, you remain silent. I'm sure you are very familiar with this tactic in the evolution vs creationism debate.
I hope to one day see the words I speak made into actions, and I suspect that those who do them will be people who you already respected and admired. Leaders are not ordinary people - else they would not be leaders - so to expect them to conform to ordinary ideals is just foolish. Lucky for our leaders then, that voters are fools. There is a difference between the words that come out of their mouths, and the thoughts they hold in their minds. Isn't it just so amusing that despite this being common knowledge, people continue to fill the voting booths? Why, you could almost say that it's like... a cycle! cont.
6/11/2010 11:10:02 AM
#1166756
Brigged
A philosopher once wrote that all men are deluded, but a philosopher questions his delusions. But don't you think that if a man questions his delusions enough, and uses the correct reasoning along the way, he would eventually find himself in the right place? You think of me as at least incorrect, at worst deluded, but I assure you, I am a very scientifically minded person, endeavouring to look at everything from every angle, and I have been questioning my delusions for a very long time. I have not just lazily plucked these ideas from some book I read. They took a long time and a lot of reasoning to form. And remember also, that I too held the same beliefs as you. I know how things look from your point of view, and I know that at the stage you are currently in, you are intellectually comfortable. You believe that you have a fair understanding of the world and tragically, you believe that a fair understanding is the best one can achieve. Here I do not speak simply of academic knowledge, but of greater things. The path to enlightenment ends when you die, not when you decide to stop looking. I'm always looking. Are you?
6/11/2010 11:10:59 AM
#1166759
Brigged
<<That's all I'll ask for now because I want to hear some damn answers.>>
You will not recieve them, because you will not allow yourself to. I have already given you a fair idea of how the matters you point out would go and given you encouragment to reflect on them for yourself. The rest falls on you, not be or the troll. Erm, I mean William.
6/11/2010 11:14:15 AM
#1166804
ssorj
You were so close...
Religion should be banned from politics.
Religion should be banned from education.
Religion should be banned from standing in the way of science and progress.
Those that promote religion in politics, education, or allow it to stop science and progress should be dealt with appropriately (though life without parole doesn't seem very appropriate at all).
In any other case, you can worship your fucking toaster for all I care.
6/11/2010 12:34:47 PM
#1166815
DviniT
Oh, it's you again.
I'll let Mr Churchill sum things up.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
6/11/2010 12:45:45 PM
#1166834
DOS Et AL
@Dionysus
"including the peaceful ones like Buddhism"
And FYI Christ preached peace. That people ignore that is not our problem. Go look at the fotums on FSTDT and tell me you dont see any people calling christians, all christians who arent radical leftists evil. Yeah, shinny mirror.
Yeah because no predominantly Buddhist nations have commited wars right? I suggest you read history better
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
And whats wrong with that? Changing you mind is a sign of weakness in politics and religion, it means you cant hold your value system, that you are wishy washy, and that you have not set position on anything.
As for an atheists opinion on the bible; it means shit,it carries no weight, especially ny suggestions they might have and "demands" they have. Atheists constantly seem to think they know more about christianity than believers, despite not understanding religion at all or the concept of faith...tell me why i should listen to any of their incorrect ramblings? Tell me what credibility do atheists have in religion over theologans and other believers? Answer: NONE.
6/11/2010 1:04:14 PM
#1166837
Brigged
<<A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.>>
So prove me wrong. Are you fanatical about evolutionary theory? Of course not, because of a tiny little variable called evidence. Wow, you know, it's like your not even reading half the stuff I say. That whole paragraph about delusions, and you think I'm fanatical?
6/11/2010 1:05:32 PM
#1166843
Brigged
<<tell me why i should listen to any of their incorrect ramblings?>>
With that attitude, why should we bother? Seems it would be a lot easier to follow my way to shut this guy up but oh - thst's right, they can be reasoned with.
<<tell me why i should listen to any of their incorrect ramblings?>>
They can be reasoned with.
<<tell me why i should listen to any of their incorrect ramblings?>>
They can be reasoned with.
<<tell me why i should listen to any of their incorrect ramblings?>>
They can be reasoned with.
Gets tiresome doesn't it?
6/11/2010 1:09:29 PM
#1166856
Brigged
<<Religion should be banned from politics. Religion should be banned from education. Religion should be banned from standing in the way of science and progress.>>
Just one little problem. Religious people don't want that to happen.
6/11/2010 1:18:31 PM
#1166902
dionysus
It seems that you prefer 'them' over 'us'
The world is only 'us' and 'them' to fanatics. The rest of us realize that there are shades of gray. For example, liberal Christians. Evidently it is YOU who hasn't been reading responses as you have yet to address the question of liberal Christians.
I do not see any real counter-arguments to my ideas. What I do see is people with beliefs demanding that their beliefs are correct because they are, and, frightened of the possibility of considering a perceived monster an intellectual equal
You could be the most intelligent, thoughtful, and eloquent person in teh world and you'd still be wrong in your assessment. If not logistically, then for sure morally.
My ideology, which is shared with the most powerful men in the world, simply offers a means to finally end the bloody cycle that has been observed to perpetuate itself throughout the history of civilization. Here, you continue to overestimate human capabilities, preferring to believe that rationality will conquer all, despite ample evidence to the contrary.
And you are overestimating the effectiveness of censorship and punishment. If religion is teh most important thing in a person's life do you think jail is going to deter them or stop their message? Dream on. You are also underestimating the potency of societal evolution. Remember, just a couple centuries ago it was considered bad for women to show a leg, now they can walk around in string bikinis and few people will say anything about it.
6/11/2010 3:02:19 PM
#1166905
DevilsChaplain
"I do not see any real counter-arguments to my ideas."
Yes, where are all the rational counter-arguments to "Kill all religious people! It's them or us!!1!"?
6/11/2010 3:08:54 PM
#1166908
dionysus
the most insidious of which is the idea that my claims have no basis in the workings of reality and yet, when invited to examine these claims for yourself objectively, you remain silent. I'm sure you are very familiar with this tactic in the evolution vs creationism debate.
Really? I'm like a creationist? That's a new one. Just because I disagree with you does not make me a reality-denying creationist.
I hope to one day see the words I speak made into actions, and I suspect that those who do them will be people who you already respected and admired.
And I hope for the sake of freedom and democracy that they don't. And let's be honest about this: with atheists and agnostics making up about 10-30% of teh population in most countries you certainly can't accomplish your goals democratically. You'd necessarily have to resort to authoritarianism.
I assure you, I am a very scientifically minded person, endeavouring to look at everything from every angle, and I have been questioning my delusions for a very long time. I have not just lazily plucked these ideas from some book I read. They took a long time and a lot of reasoning to form.
I never said you lazily plucked them from thin air. I'm just saying that your ideas are naive and wouldn't work in a practical real-world setting.
6/11/2010 3:09:30 PM
#1166915
dionysus
Go look at the fotums on FSTDT and tell me you dont see any people calling christians, all christians who arent radical leftists evil.
I didn't say that nobody here does that. Is everything all or nothing to you? Yes, there are some that do that and that's equally wrong.
Yeah because no predominantly Buddhist nations have commited wars right?
That's nice except I never said that no Buddhists have ever gone to war. Again, you display that you only understand the world in diametrically opposed extremes i.e. everyone or noone.
And whats wrong with that? Changing you mind is a sign of weakness in politics and religion, it means you cant hold your value system, that you are wishy washy, and that you have not set position on anything.
No, it's not and I wish people would stop seeing changing your mind when new evidence comes to light as a weakness. Let's say, for example, that you have a political platform about lowering taxes by 50%. You later find out that if you lower taxes that much will require you to make cuts in education funding. Is it a sign of weakness to change your mind on your position or does it show that you care more about reality than dogma?
6/11/2010 3:26:09 PM
#1166919
Pule Thamex
I wonder if Brigged's philosophy can be universal in its application? Can we round up, and ban from using computers for the rest of their lives, all the humourless trolls who see in the web an easy opportunity for causing annoyance and of being a jerk by gratuitously posting all over forums. The same philosophy could also be applied to the jerks who like to practice their arguing abilities on forums by posting tiresome responses guaranteed to make the average reader fall asleep earlier than they had anticipated.
6/11/2010 3:31:36 PM
#1166935
Pule Thamex
Oh, and don't forget Brigged, this is FSTDT, as you obviously well know, and as such, it is entirely possible that the vast majority of people that visit here do so on the expectation of seeing humorous quotes from fundie land, as well as all the attendant and mostly humorous comments for each quote. So I suggest you strike a more humorous tone to your posts in place of your usual boring whining about how everybody here is unable to understand your trollish tripe. Be entertaining. Enliven FSTDT with your witty insights in to the human condition. Sometimes you'll get yourself involved in a more serious discussion, but there is no need to be so boringly lumpen about it all. Show that you are an amiable chap, able to differ with his fellows while still retaining a love for them. We know you love your fellows so much that you are willing to see draconian measures enacted against them now for the sake of a peaceful future. But all we seem to get from you, is that you take pleasure in being an arsehole.
6/11/2010 3:54:35 PM
#1166939
Jt
This is easily one of my favorite quotes here. Not only does it show the hatred that comes from radical atheists as well as radical Christians,but it also has an awesome comments war!
6/11/2010 4:05:44 PM
#1166947
Pule Thamex
@ Brigged
"I do not see any real counter-arguments to my ideas."
And you never will, because you are a troll. A boring beggar too, a troll who will never admit of any counter-arguments to his gruff ideas, because it would mean the cessation of trollish behaviour and the return to the disheveled shuffling and orcish lifestyle of under bridge grunting and grumbling and listening glumly for the occasional gloop in the turbid waters.
6/11/2010 4:16:47 PM
#1166953
Pule Thamex
@ #1166756
Brigged
"A philosopher once wrote that all men are deluded .... continues on in same pretentious manner for a several more lines, and ends .... I'm always looking. Are you?"
Cool. Sounds like the perfect wank dribble for Pseud's Corner in Private Eye magazine.
For those who don't know, Private Eye is a long running (since the sixties) satirical magazine, published fortnightly in the UK, and I've always found Pseud's Corner one of its funnier sections.
6/11/2010 4:33:44 PM
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