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#1174324
breakerslion
"I have noticed that every atheist who borrows from Judao-Christian morality always avoids the harder moral restrictions such as the ones on sexuality. Why? Again, man-made morality is meant to make a man feel justified. This "morality" is a self-serving delusion, and I have always seen through it for what it really is."
First, if you keep putting words in my mouth by answering your own questions, we will fail to have any meaningful discussion on the subject. Second, all morality is a "self-serving delusion", much like religion and patriotism in that they're ABSTRACT CONCEPTS. The only real debate is whether a certain construct is self serving for an individual, a privileged group, or humankind. Third, most sexual mores are implemented specifically because they are doomed to failure. The Judeo-Christian sexual constraints are designed to reduce strife in a social group and provide continuous, guilt-ridden replacements and servile adherents. They are not, strictly speaking, either moral or immoral though they can be successfully described as either one. Does that answer your question, you supercilious twat, or do I need to get out the hand puppets?
7/1/2010 8:27:41 AM
#1174326
Thinking Allowed
I have noticed that every atheist who borrows from Judao-Christian morality always avoids the harder moral restrictions such as the ones on sexuality. Why?
I would think "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" would have more of a restriction than "Thou shalt not be gay." You see, one can be very harmful to people and the other is found all over in the animal kingdom.
7/1/2010 8:35:33 AM
#1174329
aaa
You type a lot of words, but not anything of substance. Try again.
7/1/2010 8:43:25 AM
#1174330
Allegory for Jesus
Man-made morality may be self-serving, what is wrong with that? If human morals don't serve human-kind, what is the point?
Atheists don't borrow Judeo-Christian morality, the Judeo-Christian belief system stole secular morality and sprinkled bullshit on top, of which "moral restrictions on sexuality" is an example.
Also, any decent human being would realize that human lives do in fact matter to other human beings, whether or not whatever is ultimately responsible for us thinks so. Humans matter from a human perspective, so the universe, destiny, fate, god, Satan, aliens, or whatever bullshit other perspective out there that claims to think otherwise is irrelevant to us.
7/1/2010 8:59:35 AM
#1174332
TGRwulf
Blood for the blood god, etc.
7/1/2010 9:02:44 AM
#1174336
Neith
"I have noticed that every atheist who borrows from Judao-Christian morality always avoids the harder moral restrictions such as the ones on sexuality."
I'm sorry, but the thing you call the "Golden Rule" is actually much older than your religion. Look up the "Ethic of Reciprocity."
7/1/2010 9:18:02 AM
#1174338
GodotIsWaiting4U
Not "opinion" strictly speaking. Societal standards. Morality doesn't occur in a vacuum; it's all based on interactions between human beings.
People aren't borrowing from Judaeo-Christian morality per se. They're using certain principles that are common to pretty much every moral system on earth, not just yours.
Good to know that you yourself have no morality and are just blindly following the will of the voices.
I'm covered, though, since I follow the will of Cegorach the Laughing God and Khaela Mensha Khaine the Bloody-Handed God.
7/1/2010 9:24:30 AM
#1174347
Berny
If the creator of the universe tells me through direct revelation that someone's life has no value, I am not going to dispute that.
It's funny how those who claim to be in communication directly with the almighty have a condition which is indistinguishable from mental illness.
Here's a clue. If doctors give you medication and the voices in your head stop, they weren't from god.
For the record. They always stop with the right medication.
7/1/2010 10:03:22 AM
#1174348
graciela
I for one have no regard for what a psychotic deity from an ancient book of myths says what is moral. I have a brain of my own. It is a lower level of morality where you decide what is good only based on what someone in authority (like the Bible god) says. Fundies need to study Kohlberg's levels of morality because a lot of them are stuck on the first level.
7/1/2010 10:06:41 AM
#1174349
Brianisha
sex is natural, christianity is not. Its obvious christians have no morals.
7/1/2010 10:13:27 AM
#1174352
Musicalbookworm
I'm guessing you and God happen to have the same opinion on all issues.
7/1/2010 10:26:05 AM
#1174360
katie5000
@ Rat of Steel: You win the entire internet, good sir. XD!
7/1/2010 10:59:28 AM
#1174362
Well, at least MikeT admits that he doesn't give a rat's ass about what the Bible actually says.
7/1/2010 11:06:47 AM
#1174363
Beltaine
"At what point does it even really matter? If the creator of the universe tells me through direct revelation that someone's life has no value, I am not going to dispute that. Why should I?"
Why shouldn't you?
"Believing he was acting on orders from God, Vincent Li attacked a stranger on a Greyhound bus last summer, mutilating his victim before decapitating him and cannibalizing part of the body."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/03/03/mb-li-trial.html
7/1/2010 11:07:05 AM
#1174365
Doubting Thomas
All morality is based on opinion. You can have regular Christians who think they're moral people and may have a drink now & then, but to hardcore Baptist fundies they're immoral for drinking alcohol. There are liberal Christians who don't see anything wrong with premarital sex, but a lot of fundamentalists will see it as very immoral. Then both liberal and fundamentalist Christians may see us atheists as immoral for not believing in God or wanting to have anything to do with Christianity. I guess your definition of moral depends on what your preacher tells you. I just can't understand why Christians can't figure this out.
But what's funny is that this supposedly all-powerful being supposedly created the entire, vast, mysterious universe with billions of stars & planets, but yet he's overly concerned with what I do with my penis. It's just the old Christian idea of trying to control everyone's sexuality.
"I for one have no regard for what some bloviating fool thinks is right and wrong."
Which is why most people don't give a rat's ass what fundie Christians think is right and wrong.
7/1/2010 11:11:49 AM
#1174368
TB Tabby
I have noticed that fundies who go by "Judeo-Christian" morality when it comes to sexuality always seem to avoid the parts about how you should sell all your belongings and give the money to the poor, or turn the other cheek, or show hospitality to strangers. Those parts always seem to be open to interpretation. But not the parts that tell them to hate on those dirty queers! Funny how God only commands people to do things they already wanted to do, eh? Almost makes it seem like YOU'RE the one with the self-serving morality!
7/1/2010 11:17:35 AM
#1174402
The L
"Borrows from Christian morality"?
"Do not do unto others what you do not wish to be done to you."
--Confucius, 500 B.C.
"Love your enemies...For if you only do good to those who have done good to you, what credit is that to you?"
--Jesus, saying basically the same thing 500 years later
I can think of several possible reasons for the similarity between those two quotes. In order of likelihood, from greatest to least:
a) Jesus and Confucius came to the same conclusion independently, based on the premise that hurting others is wrong.
b) Jesus somehow heard of Confucius's sayings despite living thousands of miles away from China, and retold them.
c) The devil time-traveled back 500 years and told Confucius about this whole Golden Rule thing, even though establishing such a moral rule would decrease the number of people doing evil things and the devil is supposed to prefer evil over good.
Man-made morality is meant to keep people from harming each other. The Bible doesn't even meet this basic standard--it says that if your kid talks back to you, you should get the neighbors together and kill him slowly and painfully by stoning. How is that LESS self-serving than "Don't hurt people," exactly?
7/1/2010 12:07:38 PM
#1174412
Big Jilm
Just wanted to add that morals are learned via all cultures with many similarities.
Hence, we all learn/develop them pretty much the same way (conditioning, modeling, empathy, and emperical).
You are just experiencing attribution errors, giving credit to the invisible man.
7/1/2010 12:26:07 PM
#1174420
Swede
Technically, the parents created their child. That does not give them the right to snuff out that life on a whim, it actually places upon them the responsibility to take care of that life, protect it to the best of their abilities (and a bit more), until the child is of age and can take care of itself.
IF God created us, he has the same responsibility for us, to make sure we are safe and sound, to place us before him.
Responsible parents know, that as soon as you have a child, you are no longer the main character in your life.
7/1/2010 12:37:53 PM
#1174424
Papabear
I have no regard for what some bloviating fool believes his fictional deity thinks is right or wrong.
Much Fundie Christian morality regarding sexuality serves no useful purpose in our modren society other than to allow some persons to control other persons.
What you think a deity told you "through direct revelation" is of no value.
It takes a great deal of stupidity to believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent deity who won't clearly reveal himself, won't write a clear manual for his followers, but only directly reveals himself to ethically-challenged morons such as you.
P.S. Though all morality is opinion, not all opinions are equal or even partialy valid.
7/1/2010 12:44:52 PM
#1174452
John
I have noticed that every atheist who borrows from Judao-Christian morality always avoids the harder moral restrictions such as the ones on sexuality.
So how come atheists have the lowest divorce rates and Christian fundamentalists the highest? How come fundies are disproportionately in prison?
7/1/2010 1:34:40 PM
#1174453
Old Viking
Nutshell.
7/1/2010 1:36:07 PM
#1174472
Percy Q. Shunn
Dear MikeT;
Please fuck your god in it's goat-hole.
7/1/2010 2:31:20 PM
#1174500
TheJebusFire
What if "God" told you your own child was worthless?
7/1/2010 3:51:55 PM
#1174692
"I have noticed that every atheist who borrows from Judao-Christian morality always avoids the harder moral restrictions such as the ones on sexuality."
Well, okay, for a start if you follow many philiosophies including Confucianism (Confucius pre-dating Jesus by quite a while, and coming up with similar ideas.)You'd actually find that an awful lot of the rules basically amount to 'play nice'
The problem is that sex and sexuality doesn't really fall under any criteria by which we could say it harms someone. Sure, if you look at rape or child molestation, there IS harm, and that's why those things are wrong, even among those atheists you describe.
But... homsexuality, bisexuality, orgies ect. just don't harm anyone. there is no societal basis to consider them morally wrong.
They may not be my thing, but that doesn't mean i should judge others. I'm more or less convinced that most people who consider homosexuality to be 'against god' is really just 'Ewwww i don't want to do that therefore no-one should be allowed to do that'
7/2/2010 2:25:34 AM
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