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Quote# 74400

This raises the question, then, as to whether sodomy laws should be, or legitimately have been, repealed just because they are rarely enforced.

The answer to this is a clear and unequivocal "No."

Think for a moment of the current social controversies that could potentially be avoided if homosexual conduct was still against the law.

Gays in the military: problem solved. We shouldn't make a place for habitual felons in the armed forces. End of discussion, end of controversy. If someone objects, ask them which other felonies the military ought to overlook in screening recruits.

Gay marriage: problem solved. We should never legalize unions between any two people when the union is forged specifically to engage in felony behavior. Would we sanction, for instance, the formation of a corporation whose stated purpose was to import illegal drugs?

Gay indoctrination in the schools: problem solved. We don't want to raise a generation of schoolchildren to believe that felony behavior is perfectly appropriate. That's why we spend so much money warning students about the danger of drugs.

Hate crimes laws: problem solved. We wouldn't throw a pastor in jail for saying that illegal behavior is not only illegal but also immoral. For instance, he's free to say that murder is not only contrary to man's law but also to God's law. End of the threat to freedom of religion and speech.

Special rights for homosexuals in the workplace: problem solved. No employer should be forced to hire admitted felons to work for him. End of the threat to freedom of religion and freedom of association in the marketplace.

This list could actually be extended, but you get the point. Laws not only curb dangerous and risky behavior, they keep such behavior from being normalized, sanctioned and endorsed by the rest of society, and as such render an enormous benefit to a healthy culture.

The promos for the old movie "American Graffiti" asked the question, "Where were you in '62?" If the same question were asked about the United States, we'd have to answer: in a much better, saner and healthier place when it comes to criminal sexual conduct.


Bryan Fischer, American Family Association 97 Comments [7/10/2010 11:08:22 AM]
Fundie Index: 143
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Oooh, lemme think of stuff that was criminal sexual conduct in the US in 1962 ... like, oh, I dunno, miscegenation ...

7/10/2010 11:12:55 AM

Vince

This is why I'm so very glad none of it's up to you.

You're the only ones with a problem. Not a single thing you said would change single one of those "problems". The only thing you'd get is MORE drama and arguments. Do you really think you can sweep people under the carpet, plug your ears, then just sit back and pretend everything's fine?

You can pretend things were any better before being gay was decriminalised all day long, like everything else you claim to believe, doesn't make a single word of it true.

7/10/2010 11:19:31 AM

Table Rock

Making things you don't like illegal so you can having fully sanctioned discrimination and ridicule. Yeah, that's always been such a winning strategy to remove people and things you don't like from society.

7/10/2010 11:21:28 AM

Ken

Great idea! Instead of solving these problems, we can just bully minorities!

7/10/2010 11:22:25 AM

Headache

The promos for the old movie "American Graffiti" asked the question, "Where were you in '62?" If the same question were asked about the United States, we'd have to answer: in a much better, saner and healthier place when it comes to criminal sexual conduct.

So you think there were no gays in 1962? Really?
Well, I got news for you...

Besides, your pinkish dreamish 1960's/50's USA was a horrid place to live in unless you were white and upper middle class, heck USA is shitty place to live today if you are not white and upper middle class.

7/10/2010 11:25:15 AM

shadkat

Don't bring a perfectly good movie into your argument, you'll ruin it for me forever.

Oh, and I have this doubtful feeling that making homosexuality a crime will make it magically vanish. You could try, I suppose, but something tells me it'll turn into another Prohibition...

7/10/2010 11:26:22 AM

shykid

Meanwhile in reality, LGBT equality poses as much of a threat to your quality of life and religious freedom as a box of Kraft Dinner in my kitchen cupboard.

7/10/2010 11:38:43 AM

Berny

The fact that anti-homosexual or sodomy laws are unconstitutional invalidates your entire argument.
Too bad you fuckwits can seem to wrap your head around that fact.

7/10/2010 11:48:05 AM

WWWWolf

> Would we sanction, for instance, the formation of a corporation whose stated purpose was to import illegal drugs?

I don't see a problem with establishing such a corporation as long as it didn't actually import illegal drugs. Of course, a company that can't do what they're established to do is kind of pointless, but that has no relation to the freedom of forming a corporation, is there? Are you against capitalism?

> Hate crimes laws: problem solved. We wouldn't throw a pastor in jail for saying that illegal behavior is not only illegal but also immoral. For instance, he's free to say that murder is not only contrary to man's law but also to God's law. End of the threat to freedom of religion and speech.

And what, pray tell, would you do if, in that situation, someone would say being gay is okay? Would that count as hate speech or incitement for crime? Where's your freedom of speech now? I don't think you thought this through...

7/10/2010 11:55:23 AM

Murdin

Conservatist ideology in a nutshell. "Because it has always been this way" is the only justification you need to maintain or reinstate liberticidal, authoritarian laws and customs.

7/10/2010 12:07:25 PM

Percy Q. Shunn

Laws not only curb dangerous and risky behavior, they keep such behavior from being normalized, sanctioned and endorsed by the rest of society, and as such render an enormous benefit to a healthy culture.

The packed-full-o'-christians death-row cells nationwide disagree. No law or threat of punishment has ever proven itself a deterent.

Sodomy does not exclusively equal teh ghey.

And I think you might be just a little too concerned about sodomy, if you know what I mean...

7/10/2010 12:11:32 PM

I read about the afterlife

Think for a moment of the current social controversies that could potentially be avoided if right-wing Christianity was against the law.

Gays in the military: problem solved. No one will care.

Gay marriage: problem solved. No one will care.

Gay indoctrination in the schools: problem solved. We won't even have this because everyone already is accepting.

Hate crimes laws: problem solved. We won't have hate crimes related to homosexuality because all those people will be in jail already.

Special rights for homosexuals in the workplace: problem solved. We won't need them any more.

This list could actually be extended, but you get the point. Laws not only curb dangerous and risky thought, they keep such thoughts from being normalized, sanctioned and endorsed by the rest of society, and as such render an enormous benefit to a healthy culture.

FIXED!

7/10/2010 12:21:03 PM

Musicalbookworm

Bryan, sweetums, you really need to pick up a fucking clue. The SCOTUS declared sodomy laws unconstitutional over ten years ago!

7/10/2010 12:23:42 PM



But didn't sodomy laws originally rule that you could only be in the missionary position?

If so, I've broken those laws so many times. I'm pretty sure they repealed or changed them, because whho the fuck wants to ban oral sex and fun positions?

7/10/2010 12:29:19 PM

Old Viking

Sounds like the Christian thing to do.

7/10/2010 12:37:24 PM

tjonp

Just because you've eliminated controversies, doesn't mean you've eliminated underlying problems.

Fascist societies have no controversies. Perhaps you'd like to live in one of those?

7/10/2010 12:37:45 PM

Sweet Fancy Moses

"Laws not only curb dangerous and risky behavior..."

That's the thing, though; homosexuality is neither risky nor dangerous.

7/10/2010 12:38:24 PM

Chaoticag

Except laws are meant to protect people, not hurt them. None of the behaviors you listed are harmful in the slightest, and you fall into a lawful-stupid territory.

7/10/2010 12:39:45 PM

John

Here's a better idea: why don't we just kill everyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian. That way, you and your fellow bigots could have the whole country to yourselves, populated only with people who think just like you. Of course that will only last until the Baptists start killing the Methodists and the independents start killing them both.

7/10/2010 12:41:01 PM

Sasha

@I read about the afterlife, you win this thread. That's the best answer I've seen yet to fundie bigotry.

7/10/2010 12:41:31 PM

TheCrimsonHeart

Actually, the US does allow convicted felons to serve in the military.

7/10/2010 12:49:47 PM

Papabear

No, that would solve all of those questions, they would simply be part of the bigger issue of repealing laws against homosexuality.

Prove that homosexuality is more risky than driving a car, giving birth to a baby, owning a swimming pool, or any number of other reasonable activities. Betcha can't.


Just because you pine for 1962 doesn't mean it was a "saner," or better place, and it was certainly not a healthier place. There have been innumerable advancements in the medical and safety fields since 1962.

What is "criminal sexual conduct?" Homosexuality and homosexual sex is not criminal. Sex with children is criminal, but it is criminal for both homosexuals and heterosexuals, so what's your point?


Are you afraid that if homosexuality isn't illegal you'll suddenly have an overwhelming urge for some meat in the seat?

7/10/2010 12:50:14 PM

Xotan

Felony?

Firstly you seem to know an awful lot about what gays do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I wonder how you can be so sure of this? Personal experience?

Secondly, if you are not protesting too much, then you are living in the Dark Ages. We Europeans look upon you with pity and contempt. And we sorry that your country could possibly be brought to ruin by you and your equally uneducated ilk.

You are a shame to America and a disgrace to humanity.

Why don't you try testing the gun you no doubt own on your skull

7/10/2010 1:06:40 PM



holy friggin crap! not often am i drivin to scream at my computer, but this did it. One question here, how does having to work with gay people threaten religious freedom? HOW???

7/10/2010 1:15:14 PM

HoJuSimpson

The promos for the old movie "American Graffiti" asked the question, "Where were you in '62?" If the same question were asked about the United States, we'd have to answer:

I see. Now how about we ask someone else that same question, maybe..Emmett Till? Oh, wait...

In short: fuck you then and now.

7/10/2010 1:26:31 PM
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