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Quote# 74429

Our country was founded -this is just an historic fact; some people today may resist this notion but it is absolutely true- it was founded by people of faith. It was founded on principles of faith. The whole idea of equality of men and women [and] of the races all springs from the notion that we're all children of a just God...

People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we're just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power.

And atheism leads to brutality. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth.

Mitch Daniels, wane.com 64 Comments [7/13/2010 7:22:05 AM]
Fundie Index: 50
Submitted By: emau99
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Horsefeathers

"Our country was founded -this is just an historic fact; some people today may resist this notion but it is absolutely true- it was founded by people of faith."

You've not actually read what most of them wrote, have you? More than a few were outright hostile to faith in general and Christianity in particular. The rest appear to be deists of some sort and a few were Christian, but wouldn't be considered a True Christian™ by most of the people that make the claim you're making.

"It was founded on principles of faith."

No. It wasn't.

"The whole idea of equality of men and women [and] of the races all springs from the notion that we're all children of a just God..."

It springs from Enlightenment philosophy you gibbering jackass.

"People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we're just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power."

Only to sociopaths.

"And atheism leads to brutality."

I fail to see how.

"All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth."

Crusades. Spanish Inquisition. Salem Witch Trials. More Crusades. The Dark Ages. Yet more Crusades. Suppression of knowledge through killing those asking the "wrong" questions. Murdering people for belonging to the wrong sect of your own religion, etc.

Do you not consider those "horrific crimes" or are you just not aware of them? And that's only the Christians. Would you like me to point out what religion in general has done?

7/13/2010 7:38:29 AM



Hitler was Catholic.
Stalin trained as an orthodox priest.

7/13/2010 7:42:39 AM

Doctor Whom

*Lying about the founders' religious beliefs: check.
*Lying about Christianity's role in the movement for equality: check.
*Slippery slope from atheism to "all that matters is power": check.
*Lying about Hitler's religious beliefs: check.

7/13/2010 7:42:51 AM

Big Jilm

So the US was founded on Biblical Law? Tell me which Biblical passages support Democracy? Good luck with that.

I am sure though, you could probably support the initial setup of the US from the Bible -you know, only rich white land-owners can vote, murder, theft, and genocide for land, etc.

Hint: in the early days of the US, men and women were not equal and all races were definitely not equal.

Also, Hitler was Catholic and Stalin was Orthadox Christian. Nice try though.

7/13/2010 7:52:24 AM

John_in_Oz

Horrific crimes of the last century: My Lai, Hiroshima, Rwandan Genocide, 20th century American lynchings, Apartheid, World War 1. African Christians killing children for being 'witches'. These are just off the top of my head.
It's very kind of you and all, to forgive and forget those evils perpetrated by you and yours, but really, honesty should compel you to confess.

7/13/2010 8:01:02 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Funny how the founding document, the Constitution, does not mention god once. Not once.

7/13/2010 8:03:37 AM

Xotan

Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11 adequately answers what I think you are trying to say, but failing to connect with your subject in any meaningful way.

7/13/2010 8:06:09 AM

dionysus

Our country was founded -this is just an historic fact

Okay, I agree so far. The country was, in fact, founded.

it was founded by people of faith

I don't know if Deists like people telling them that their position is based on faith, but whatever, even if the country was founded by people of faith, so what? What matters is that it was founded as a secular country so it doesn't matter what the founders personally believed.

It was founded on principles of faith

No. It was founded as a secular nation. Get that through your thick skull.

The whole idea of equality of men and women [and] of the races all springs from the notion that we're all children of a just God...

Did you ever read the fucking Bible? It condones slavery and your god even has a chosen race and treats everyone else as expendable.

People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we're just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power.

Completely and demonstrably false. 1) It doesn't matter how much power you have if everyone is against you. People who are able to cooperate generally end up better off than those that don't. 2) Isn't the standard fundie argument that what god says is moral is moral just because god is a god? I distinctly remember fundies arguing that god can kill others because he created them. Also, the threat of hell only works because god is supposedly more powerful than us.

And atheism leads to brutality.

Funny how the prison statistics completely disagree with that. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists.

Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth

I'll grant you Mao and Stalin, but Hitler was most definitely a theist. But it doesn't matter because more than being atheists or theists the three of them had one thing in common: they were assholes that were corrupted by absolute power.

because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment

Wait, didn't you just say that we shouldn't base our morality on power? Here you are basing it on god's power to judge. Way to contradict yourself.

there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth

Arguably that makes it all the more vital that we get our act together as we only get one chance and it's far more horrible to kill a person and have them cease to exist than to kill them only for them to go onto a better life where they are immortal.

7/13/2010 8:11:49 AM

Headache

Stalin - raised as an Orthodox Russian Christian
Hitler - Catholic sprinkled with a bit of Jesuits.
Pol Pot - Theravan Buddhist

None of these people were atheists nor did any of them kill in the name of atheism.

Hitler used religion all the time. Stalin knew he could not rip out the church from Russia and most Russian churches were left alone and religion flourished under the Soviet dictators.

But when can one actually expect a fundie to know real history?

7/13/2010 8:15:45 AM

Thinking Allowed

What bible has Mitch been reading? According to the bible, women are not equal to men.


7/13/2010 8:16:17 AM

werewolf

See, Mitch, this is what happens when you let your mouth run off without engaging your brain.

7/13/2010 8:33:40 AM

Kinderklein

Mitch Daniels, meet Thomas Jefferson. I'm sure you will be bestest of friends.

7/13/2010 8:46:03 AM

ND

I wonder which nation he speaks of.

7/13/2010 9:02:57 AM

GodotIsWaiting4U

Faith, certainly. Deistic faith. Not yours.

There is no eternal standard of right and wrong (there are societal ones, though, and it's in your best interests to follow them). All the evidence suggests that this life is all there is. It does not, however, follow that all that matters is power. Also, we aren't "accidental"; just not intended. Evolution works quite systematically. It's somewhat chaotic, but we aren't the product of some failure of the system; we're a product of the system.

Atheism does not lead to brutality. Hitler wasn't an atheist, and Stalin and Mao committed their atrocities for other reasons.

If I was dealing with the fact that there is nothing beyond this Earth, I'd deal with it the way I deal with it now: by having fun with my friends and trying to lead a rich, fulfilling life.

7/13/2010 9:08:23 AM

TGRwulf

First off, Treaty Of Tripoli bitch!

Also, it scares me that if it wasn't for god these idiots think it would basically be okay to go on a homocidal rampage. If that is the ONLY thing keeping you from killing others, then you need to seek some professional help asap.

And for the last damn time, Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin was Orthodox!! T_T

7/13/2010 9:08:58 AM

Musicalbookworm

So much history fail. If equality is God given and the US was founded as a Christian nation, then tell me why was slavery enshrined in the constitution and why were women second class citizens. Oh and why did you have to be a property owner to vote?

7/13/2010 9:31:17 AM

emau99

I'd just like to point out that Mitch Daniels is the Governor of Indiana.

7/13/2010 9:42:19 AM

caustic gnostic

Hitler and Stalin took upon themselves the mantle of 'Savior'. Mao created a personality cult with himself as the focus.

Not atheist, but "I Am Theos". Still religions, no matter how you slice them.

7/13/2010 9:46:47 AM



"All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth-"

It's time for my favorite Hitler quote!

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country] ... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity ... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press—in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... [few] years. "

7/13/2010 10:02:44 AM



Jefferson and Paine men of faith?. In some alternative universe, maybe

7/13/2010 10:03:51 AM

Agnostic Jew

Stalin had seminary training. Hitler was not an athiest. And as to other horrific crimes committed within the past century--someone needs to explain to Mitch Daniels that Osama bin Laden, head of al-Qaeda, which has committed horrific crimes against people, has done it in the name of religion.

Oh, but bin Laden's not a Christian, so I guess he doesn't count.

7/13/2010 10:11:16 AM

unanimous

"From my brother Severus, ... I received the idea of a polity in which there is the same law for all, a polity administered with regard to equal rights and equal freedom of speech, and the idea of a kingly government which respects most of all the freedom of the governed..."

From Book 1 of the Meditiations, written by the pagan emperor Marcus Aurelius

Silly emperor. Don't you know that it was Jesus all along that came up with that?

7/13/2010 10:16:23 AM

Doctor Fishcake

Oh not this shite again.

7/13/2010 10:35:52 AM

Nihlum

Which is why, as good godly people we fought so hard and long against equality.

@emau99 , oh dear.


7/13/2010 11:01:45 AM

SleepNeed

Our country was founded -this is just an historic fact; some people today may resist this notion but it is absolutely true- it was founded by people of faith. It was founded on principles of faith.

No it wasn't founded on faith. Read the Constitution, and the various letters by Jefferson.

The whole idea of equality of men and women [and] of the races all springs from the notion that we're all children of a just God...

Then why couldn't women vote until 1920 and those from and with African descent where forced into slavery in, and not even be considered human, then have Jim Crow Laws be upon them until 1965? The sad truth is that we where equal, provided your white and male until later in our country.

People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we're just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power.

Then why do these mega church runners (like Benny Hinn) own multi million dollar homes and stay in five star hotels when they travel?

And atheism leads to brutality.

According to my research, atheists make up 0.209% of all prisoners. Compared to 39.164% Catholics and 35.008% Protestants. So how are we more violent if we are not even a quarter of a percent of the prisoner population when we make up 1.6% of the population?

All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth.

While Mao and Stalin where atheists, Hitler was not. He viewed atheists as enemies.

7/13/2010 11:07:16 AM
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