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If you can't understand the concept of consent, then if I were you I'd hold off having sex with anyone until I spoke with a lawyer.
Oh wait, it's love-shy. We don't have to worry about them having sex with anyone. Anyone willing, that is.
But seriously, haven't you ever heard of the saying "No means no?"
7/14/2010 9:08:17 AM
Ahh yes "love shy"
The home for lonely, frustrated,bitter, ugly little men who live in their mother's basements and will never have sex
Instead they must content themselves with violent nasty little fantasies
So very sad
7/14/2010 9:14:49 AM
you teach her how to be a natural woman and submissive
Teach someone to be natural? Does not compute.
Good thing you don't say women are naturally submissive there, as you say "and submissive", not "; submissive". Semantics, sure, but details count.
you are talking about 'relationship', I have not got there yet, I'm only talking about sex.
I don't know about you, but I was in a 'relationship' for a while with my now husband, before we had sex the first time.
she has the innate submissive instinct and the guy needs to nurture this.
I most certainly don't have any innate submissive instinct, and any guy who wanted to nurture anything like that with me would need to nurture himself through a straw for a while afterwards...
7/14/2010 9:22:58 AM
Consent =/= eugenics.
Consent is very easy to figure out. The person says "yes" or "no". If they say "yes", then they've given consent, and you're good to go. If they say "no", you're out of luck.
The fact that you apparently don't understand this is frightening, yet explains so much.
7/14/2010 9:30:48 AM
And if the other pair of the match has a different inmunological system, is not compatible or needs other resources to their offsprings, doesn't give consent. It's rape, deal with it.
7/14/2010 10:02:00 AM
Bubba actually matches with the attractive, good sperm characteristics. And, nevertheless, you'll cry rape when you're in jail.
7/14/2010 10:04:16 AM
e_i-2 is advancing a theory about human mating behavior. It may not be right, and he may phrase it poorly, but to deride him as a misogynist and a rapist is to willfully distort his intent with this quote.
There are fundies on LoveShy. Advanced, fschmidt, and a couple of the bitter ones come to mind. e_i-2 is not one of them.
I really expected better from my fellow rationalists.
7/14/2010 10:15:23 AM
Well, I read the page and I can't imagine how one could consider him as anything other than a misogynist and, while we can't know if he's actually carried through any of the suggestions he makes, he certainly makes comments which would encourage/support rape.
If these men think that this is how to treat women, it's little surprise no woman wants to be anywhere near them.
7/14/2010 10:27:20 AM
Your statement has two serious flaws. First, attractiveness, specially in the animal world, is a very subjective concept. The alpha male may be rejected if he has certain DNA which can compromise the welfare of the species if mating with another female, whether of his choice or not. And, believe me, the way to punish rebelious males is actually far worse in nature than in our civilised human world.
Second, as many people said here and as they have confessed more than once, those guys in the forum are recognised omega males, that is, the shit of the herd, talking in natural terms. So, if their theories were true, and we lived in the natural world, not only the theory would be diametrically wrong but their fate would be rather tragic.
Rape is, both in the natural world and the civilised world, the coercion of the other pair into sex which compromises the perpetuation of the species. So, yes, maybe not fundie, but completely stupid and worth quoting.
7/14/2010 10:47:04 AM
fuck, this isn't hard people!
You're giving the socially inept a bad name and i resent that.
7/14/2010 10:47:33 AM
Usually, I'd agree with you. I tend to find most of e_i-2's posts to be unoffensive.
But when you look at the rest of the thread for context, it pretty much spells out he was saying. The submitted quote was a response to this from another poster:
"There is a difference between being dominated and being raped. In the majority of cases if the act is wanted then it would not be considered rape. Note that this would not apply in the case of statuatory rape, nor does 'wanting' it consist merely of being sexually aroused."
And then e_i said this:
"And what is that difference? Interestingly I'm actually discussing rape with another new poster as well. . . since the difference between rape and domination is 'consent', what gives consent? Attraction, just with animals and their mating rituals of sexual display - if you are attractive, good sperm, then it's not rape."
When challenged on the issue of domination vs rape, he indicates that consent is a flimsy requirement satisfied by good looks and good sperm. His posts in the thread seem to indicate that he sees very little difference at all between domination and rape and in at last one point, uses the two interchangeably. Earlier in the thread he said that some women WANT to be raped. There's really no two ways about that one.
The phrasing and the context really point to his meaning as being exactly what we think it is.
I don't want to believe that the usually well-meaning e_i is pro-rape and I don't think he's that way in general. But the things he's said are abhorrent. I agree that e_i is not among the typical rogues gallery of fundies on Love-Shy, but that does not exempt him from our attention if/when he says something fundie. And whether he meant to or not, he most definitely said something fundie.
7/14/2010 10:51:38 AM
Women aren't sperm dumpsters. You can't just go around grabbing whichever one you feel like. The feeling of attraction usually has to be mutual before any sex takes place, anyway.
And yeah, women only usually consent to guys they're attracted to. Duh.
Are you an attractive guy? That might be your problem.
7/14/2010 10:53:11 AM
You seem to be striking out with the ladies. Instead of fantasizing about rape, try whining.
7/14/2010 11:28:50 AM
So, good-looking people are not capable of rape?
P.S. I may HAVE "good sperm," but I am not "good sperm."
7/14/2010 1:23:05 PM
I think this is less emptyinside saying, "I'm attractive rah so I can rape whoever I want", and more typical pathetic love-shy bitching, "Rah women hate nice men who aren't attractive, they only want good-looking guys, they invented the concept of rape to demonise ugly but AWESOME guys like us who try to have kinky dominant sex with them without permission but they'd LOVE it if it was some good-looking bad boy." Because, y'know, it's everyone's fault but theirs.
7/14/2010 3:06:20 PM
Crap. Am I going to have to report these assholes to their hosting company again?
7/14/2010 3:15:37 PM
Does it actually say he's an American anywhere?
7/14/2010 3:38:40 PM
What the fuck? How can anyone be so dense? Being "attractive" or having "good sperm" (?!) doesn't mean everyone has automatically consented to having sex with you! A woman may not consent to sex with a man because she's a lesbian, because she's already in a comitted relationship with someone else, because she personally doesn't find the guy attractive, because she's not in the mood at that particular time... or any number of other reasons. This is blatantly obvious to anyone who recognizes that women are human beings. Only a complete misogynst - or just an ignorant fool who doesn't understand what the word "consent" means - would think a nonsensical statement like "what gives consent?" is a valid question.
7/14/2010 5:24:01 PM
It's incredible that you can't understand what he is saying here.
He is saying that consent is given to attractive individuals. If they are not attractive how will they get consent? It doesn't say what attraction entails, that's why this good sperm part is a bit off, but I think he's saying that women instinctively feel than an attractive male has good sperm, which is, of course, debatable.
He's right. It's not fundie. It's you people failing reading comprehension.
7/14/2010 5:28:19 PM
Being attracted to someone doesn't automatically mean that you want to have sex with them, asshole.
7/14/2010 5:48:38 PM
@ Mrs. Antichrist
He didn't say it means they want to have sex, he said that attraction is a necessary prerequisite. Even if he said what you think he said, and he didn't, it's not fundie or extreme in any way.
7/14/2010 5:56:32 PM
Hey, "good sperm", I hope the first woman you try this on rips your testicles clean off.
7/14/2010 6:35:32 PM
No, he's implying that being attractive, in and of itself, constitutes consent. In other words, if you're pretty, you can't be a rapist, because your victim will always automatically want it. Even if she says no.
7/14/2010 6:41:44 PM
since the difference between rape and domination is 'consent', what gives consent?
All parties involved must consent
Attraction, just with animals and their mating rituals of sexual display
Society holds us all to a higher standard than base animalistic behavior. Do you also agree that it is not murder if another person kills you to show their dominance, or because they are hungry and think you might make good eating? Even if your answer is yes the society that you have chosen to live in condemns such acts as criminal, and no amount of rationalization will make that untrue.
if you are attractive
And who decides attractiveness? You, or your intended victim? How do know that what qualities you consider to be attractive are considered attractive to anyone else?
Once more, what qualities define "good sperm" and who determines them? Do you do a complete medcal history and genetic work up, or is this an arbitrary decision you make in a pathetic attempt to justify rape?
then it's not rape.
I hope to fuck that someone puts you down or locks you up, preferably the former.
7/14/2010 7:32:30 PM
@ The L
That's one way of looking at it but it's influenced by your opinion about LS com. I know you think that everybody's a rapist and a woman hater there. However, it's not very "rational" or "scientific" to say he's implying what you think he's implying because of a general atmosphere on that forum. I'd like to think that he meant that consent is given only if the attraction is present. Anyway, you guys should ask him yourself instead of spewing your hate so indiscriminately.
7/14/2010 8:00:41 PM
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