Steve K. #fundie

Steve K. #fundie answers.yahoo.com

Atheists, why do you say prayer logically makes no sense if God is supposed to be loving?

Here is what one of you recently said to a Christian who said that God had a plan for her:

"God wants you to be happy but he says no to a child who prays for his dad to stop raping him? Some ego you have there."

Okay, it is not morally right for God to stop this because he has to allow free will. If he stopped every parent from raping children, the world would be destroyed because there would be NO free will and every one would be robots and we would be FORCED to do good.

God CANNOT intervene for the greater good.

Do you understand?

113 comments

old comment by Cy

I can imagine a dozen situations by which God could stop a parent raping their child without infringing on anyone's free will.

Causing an anonymous report to miraculously appear among the paperwork of the local social services department, for example, leading them to check the situation out. Causing a neighbour to pop over for a cup of sugar at just the right time to catch the parent in the act and report them. Giving the child a free scholarship to a boarding school, or giving the parent a new job which requires them to live away from the family home. Or causing the parent to die, end up in hospital for an extended period, or become disabled in a way which prevents them raping anyone. Hell, just strike the male ones with complete impotence if a child is so much as in the same building.

Not to mention that there is something extremely fucked-up when you care more about the free will of a rapist than you do about keeping their victims safe from any further harm.

old comment by Power Skunk

@#1188649: I totally read the "God" lines of that in Morgan Freeman's voice.

And yeah, if God is unwilling and unable to intervene in cases of evil, then why call him God?
Besides, prayer is incredibly selfish if you people hold the belief that 'God has a plan'. By praying, you're literally, and arrogantly asking God to change his universe spanning Xanatos Gambit for your sake.
And the damned funny thing is how many times you'll pray for, say in this economy, a new job. You'll actually fool yourself into thinking, in the event you get one, that not only did God answer your prayers (thus changing his plan) but it was part of his plan all along (So he didn't change his plan).
Make up your fuckin' minds people. Can't have it both ways.

old comment by Eden

At the same time (according to fundamentalist beliefs) god punishes people for using their own free will by throwing all those people into a lake of fire, who don´t believe in the literal truth of the bible) ;)

To take up the example of the little girl who was repeatedly raped by her father:
Lets assume this girl sees that prayers don´t work and therefore decides to abandon her faith in god.
This will mean that she will burn in said lake of fire.

Her father on the other hand...assume he kills his daughter shortly after she abandoned her faith, but gets caught and afterwards receives the death penalty.
Shortly before getting executed he gets visited by a preacher and takes on the christian faith, and therefore, after execution(according to fundamentaliust beliefs) gets straight to heaven.

So lets see, we have a little girl who did no harm to anyone but only wanted to live in peace (and without getting raped by her father) who gets thrown into hell,
and we have an asshole who, repeatedly raped his daughter and killed her and did nothing good to this world, who is allowed to ascend to heaven.

All because your "all loving" god didn´t want to interfere with free will.

Truely loving god you have ;)

old comment by BobsOldSocks

"Okay, it is not morally right for God..."

In the estimation of whom? I thought your god defines morality, thus anything he/she/it/they chooses to do is moral.

"...to stop this because he has to allow free will."

He does? Your omnipotent god is constrained in some way? Who's forcing your god to allow free will? Perhaps you should worship them instead.

"If he stopped every parent from raping children, the world would be destroyed because there would be NO free will..."

Really? Where does it say that in the bible?

"...every one would be robots and we would be FORCED to do good."

That's what your god allegedly wants, isn't it? Better your god compels the behaviour he deems fit than innocents suffering, surely?

"God CANNOT intervene for the greater good."

So you acknowledge that there is a greater good but your vindictive, petty, petulant god chooses to allow people to suffer instead? Feel the love!

old comment by dionysus

Okay, so let's put this crap into perspective for a minute with an analogy: say I have a daughter and she is in the process of being raped (but hasn't been penetrated yet). I get home and catch the perpetrator in the act. Let's assume I have some sort of non-lethal weapon such as a taser that can immobilize him long enough for my daughter to get away. Now, here's the question: am I more evil for using this option and saving my daughter from the pain and humiliation of being raped or is it more evil to just stand there and watch the whole thing happen just so the perpetrator doesn't have a few seconds where he has no control over his body (after being tased)? I think this analogy makes a crystal clear why this particular apologetic is appalling.

old comment by theo

I understand the argument: God COULD stop the rape, because he COULD do anything, but he DOESN'T, because we have to make our own decisions based on repercussions and our own morality. It sucks for the kid, but intervention would take away the man's ability to repent and try to atone for his sins.

Which is the regular Christian argument. God doesn't perform miracles, because he wants humans to fix the world themselves. I guess the implication is that we'll eventually reach a state of enlightenment where nobody does anything evil due to our own morality, and that is what God is allowing us to achieve by refusing to help.

Which would be a logical argument (not a very compassionate God, but a consistent one). Unfortunately the sort of Christians seen on here, also believe in all-manner of miracles carried out in biblical times, and take the word of the Old Testament as absolute truth. Additionally - prayer - what purpose does that have, if all of human experience is based on free will and its repercussions?

Apologetics argument for lack of evidence. When people desperately pray and are not helped is evidence for the lack or inability for a deity to intervene, you resort to a theodicy apology that results in the conclusion that said deity is also the cause of evil, when the existence of evil is also plausible evidence for the same lack. Circular and self-defeating. But every religion has theodicy apologetics to attempt to justify the belief despite the lack of evidence and even the contraditory evidence.

Steve K. #fundie answers.yahoo.com

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