David J. Stewart #fundie

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God. Children are no longer educated; but rather, indoctrinated in public schools. America is NOT LISTENING TO GOD! We have deliberately rejected the knowledge of God, just as Hosea 4:6 teaches. Americans are wicked more than foolish. Americans are wicked more than ignorant. It is our nation's love for sin that has caused us to be foolish, ignorant and complacent. First and foremost, Americans are sinful and wicked.

The Old Testament Jews were destroyed for lack of knowledge, knowledge which they openly refused to have. They chose to remain ignorant. They didn't want to hear the truth. Nothing has changed in thousands of years. People don't want the truth nowadays. People are willfully ignorant of the truth. Most people reject knowledge.

111 comments

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God."

Kitzmiller vs. Dover ensured that, from 2005 onwards, the teaching of 'Intelligent Design', and therefore Creationism in all accredited educational establishments in the US is illegal and unconstitutional. Better sit down Davey-boy, because what I'm about to tell you, you're not going to like one bit:

Y'see, John E. Jones, himself a Conservative Christian, was appointed to the Federal bench in 2002 by president George Dumbya Bush, himself a Conservative Christian who believes in Creationism.

Judge John E. Jones then presided over Kitzmiller vs. Dover in 2005. He found for the plaintiffs, thus the precedent was set. Therefore teaching 'I.D.' (and by definition Creationism) became illegal & unconstitutional.

If Judge Jones was appointed by Dumbya, and it was Conservative Christians who voted in Dumbya - twice, then the Religious Right's educational agenda was ultimately destroyed by the Religious Right themselves.

Thus right-wing fundie Americans like you, Davey-boy are not only wicked (diddled any more little girls lately?), foolish and ignorant, but are blinded by their 'faith' to such an extent, that they cannot foresee the repercussions of their own actions.

Yes, that's right. Ultimately, you are responsible for 'Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God'. You have helped the cause of Atheism in the US in ways that not even we Atheists could have imagined. And we didn't have to lift a finger.

It's all your fault.

old comment by Horsefeathers

"Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God."

That's what churches are for, not public schools.

"Children are no longer educated; but rather, indoctrinated in public schools."

Oddly enough, that's also what churches are for.

You seem to be confusing the two.

"America is NOT LISTENING TO GOD!"

Mostly because he doesn't seem to be quite as chatty as he used to be. No more burning bushes or booming voices for us, I guess.

"We have deliberately rejected the knowledge of God, just as Hosea 4:6 teaches. Americans are wicked more than foolish. Americans are wicked more than ignorant. It is our nation's love for sin that has caused us to be foolish, ignorant and complacent. First and foremost, Americans are sinful and wicked."

So leave.

"The Old Testament Jews were destroyed for lack of knowledge, knowledge which they openly refused to have. They chose to remain ignorant. They didn't want to hear the truth."

Probably because they had their own "truth." You know, just like how you won't listen to the Muslims when they try to tell you that your "truth" isn't as truthy as their "truth" and how you're bound for Hell because of it.

"Nothing has changed in thousands of years. People don't want the truth nowadays. People are willfully ignorant of the truth. Most people reject knowledge."

Some more than others, it seems.

old comment by Doubting Thomas

Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God.

WTF? Don't those children have parents who can take them to church and teach them about God? Why is it the schools' responsibility to make sure kids have a religious upbringing? Oh right, you want my kids to be indoctrinated into your religion, and you're pissed off because I won't do it.

America is NOT LISTENING TO GOD!

No, we're not listening to raving loons claiming to speak for God.

Americans are wicked more than foolish. Americans are wicked more than ignorant. ... First and foremost, Americans are sinful and wicked.

Don't like it, GTFO. And why did you put "first and foremost" at the end of your paragraph?

They chose to remain ignorant. They didn't want to hear the truth.

Just like fundamentalist Christians today.

People don't want the truth nowadays. People are willfully ignorant of the truth. Most people reject knowledge.

Again, we're in agreement about the fundie Christians.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@aaa

"Dave, what do you think knowledge is? Do you really think that you are some all-knowing sage of wisdom?"

All Dave knows about is perving at "Hannah Montana" et al on the Disney Channel. As for what he always screams about, being the fundie foamer he is, and considering he's nothing more than a kiddy-diddling nonce, it only goes to prove the old saying:

Those who shout the loudest, have the most to hide.

Davey-boy projects so much, he could make the IMAX format obsolete.

From that particular page, he doesn't just become IMAX-like, he's almost holographic 3D:

"Americans are the biggest hypocrites in the world"

Takes one to be one. Certainly takes an Atheist to recognise one.

"Americans boast of family values; while aborting their own children.
Americans teach their children to “say no to drugs”; while drugging themselves with booze and killing others.
Americans tell their children not to watch filthy smut on TV; while watching it themselves with adulterous hearts.
Americans complain about increasing healthcare costs; while smoking themselves to death.
Americans demand social integrity; while robbing children of the moral guidance of the Bible.
Americans demand changes in government; while continuing to vote for a criminal two-party scam.
Americans sing God Bless America; while taking God's name in vain and cursing Jesus continually.
Americans boast of their freedoms; while having their homes, jobs, pensions and livelihood confiscated.
Americans worship Hollywood and music celebrities; while disobeying the God they claim to trust.
Yes, we are a hypocritical nation of liars, gluttonous swine and idolaters!"

And in particular, one is a kiddy-diddling nonce. Take a look in the mirror. Then kill yourself, Dave.

"The end of the dollar is near. World War II is near. The end of the United States as a free society is near. NAFTA is treason. Open borders are treason. Our nation is going bankrupt. We are going into one of the worst depressions in American history. We are a sick, decadent, degenerate society. It's 11:59 in the New World Order's time clock."

That tinfoil hat just ain't cutting it any more is it, eh Davey-boy?

"Choose sides! Are you with God or Satan?"

Well, in your case, you're fucked before you've even started.

old comment by Icarus Jones

I LOVE IT, THE WORLD'S EVIL.

How satisfying is the snarling gnash?
Very. It beats the hard work of reason and logic.
See how far my spittle flies.
No need to be neurologic about geologic and biologic.
We all know Goddidit, guys.

I'm great, truly I'm a voice of God.
See how I rant like an unlearned barbarian.
The USA cares not what I say.
America needs a disciplinarian authoritarian,
who needs not any prompting to slay.

I awaken and so I must spout lunacy
It's much easier in these days of the web
For a mental case like me to reach and teach more people
more bullshit, and I like the sound of my own voice.
Everyone can admire the forthright and ethical nature of my views.
If I'm Godly. If I'm a pedophile.
Then it's the will of God.

Notice how everyone's evil.
Specially in the USA.
Notice how I hate everything and everyone.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
Ideal. God makes it so.

old comment by dionysus

Evolution is being taught in all our Public Schools, deliberately rejecting and depriving children of the knowledge of God.

What are you talking about? Children are still allowed to go to church. They simply don't learn pseudoscience and mythology in science class.

America is NOT LISTENING TO GOD!

Secular country. Don't like it? Go start your own country where everyone gives blow jobs to Jesus every day.

So slavery is okay then?

People don't want the truth nowadays. People are willfully ignorant of the truth. Most people reject knowledge.

And those people call themselves "creationists".

old comment by Mary Grace

Dont you people have anything else to do then torture this many with cruel comments! I mean GET A LIFE!!!! And to all you atheist out there I have one story to tell you~

A guy I've never met in my life turns towards me, and sneezes in my face.
I looked at him and I went "God bless you" which you know, IS god bless you, but it kinda sounded like "Cover your fucking mouth"
The guy looks at me, and very condescending, he goes: "Uuuh, yeah, I'm an Atheist"

I'm trying to be polite, I didn't know you were an atheist, and even if I did, what am I supposed to say when an atheist sneezes? "When you die nothing happens!"

Then the guys says, "well what about you, what do you believe happens to you after you die?"
I say "Well hopefully I live a good life, and my soul goes to heaven"
Then the guy giggles and laughs at me. He is laughing at my beliefs, and finally I snap and say "Fine, what about you? what do you believe happens after YOU die?"

Now he gets serious, like he's going to school me.
"I konw what's going to happne to me after I die! After I pass on, my body will become one with this earth, and become a fertilizer for this planet. With that I will return as a huge beautiful tree."
I hope when he dies he does become a tree! and wouldn't it be fantastic if while he was out there, just enjoying his tree-ness, through the woods a huge sweaty guy with an axe comes along. Sees him. Chops him down. Put a chain around him, drag him through the mud and the muck. Throw him into a saw mill. Grind him up. Then you pound him down into paper. Once he's paper, you PRINT THE BIBLE ON HIM!

You have to love that quote from ~ Dane Cook! :D
NOT SO SMART NOW HUH?

old comment by beast of prey

You know... if THE LORD really gave a shit about us, I would think He'd pick somebody who's not a raving lunatic to convey His Word to us mortal men.

Oh, wait...

It seems Our Lord has a habit of sending people in the throes of psychosis to just that. After all, His only Son was quite obviously certifiable.

If I apply the same level of logic that David J. Stewart uses 97% of the time (because he's right about...something at some point in his life, I think) then that would mean that David J. Stewart is actually the Son of God because he's also completely insane like Jesus.

So we should all worship David J. Stewart because he's actually Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

David, my Savior, at last you have revealed your true self. Soon, the rapture will take us all away to the alien space ships where God will smother us with love and affection, especially in the form of rape! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Lauren Edith~ Rose

"I love David J. Stewart."

So you - a 'moral Christian' - love an equally 'moral Christian' kiddy-diddling paedo nonce, eh?

http://davidjstewartexposed.blogspot.com/

image

Just so's we know...

To my knowledge, no Atheist (certainly any prominent ones such as Richard Dawkins) has been convicted of child sex crimes, or related paedophilic acts. Of course not. Because no Atheist would. Why should they contemplate the notion of even thinking of being one?

John 8:7: 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

image

You do the maths, Lauren.

>:D

@#1239168

"Also, Lauren and Rebecca and whatever are all obviously the same person."

It's happened before with other fundie apologists/trolls. All it takes is for Distind to do an IP address check. He is the Admin of FSTDT after all. Lauren/Rebecca/whatever, take note.

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

@ Lauren Edith~ Rose

"I know why people hate DAVID J STEWART it's because he is a true believer and when the world hates you. YOU KNOW YOUR A PROPHET OF GOD!"

Unfortunately, this argument doesn't work. Here are two reasons:

1) The old, "I'm oppressed so I know I am right" argument has been used countless times by Christian sects throughout history. For example, the Monatists, the Anabaptists, the Mormons, the People's Temple, the Appalachian Snake-handlers and many others have all pointed to the condemnation they received by their neighbors as proof of their rectitude.

However, these sects were founded on dogmas that varied extremely widely, so widely in fact as to be mutually exclusive. Indeed, it could truly be said that these widely varying sects had only two things in common; they all claimed to be the true expression of Christianity, and they were all condemned for saying so. Perhaps it is possible that all of these sects (and many other sects that have been lost to history) were all correct. However, this would suggest that your God is insane and self-contradictory. A much more reasonable argument would be that the "I am oppressed, so I know I am right" argument is simply wishful thinking.

2) If you look into Stewart's material, you will see that he regularly attacks other churches and evangelists. His attacks on the Roman Catholic Church are well documented, but he hardly stops there. In one youtube video, he even condemns Jack Chick (yes folks, Jack Chick) as promoting a false doctrine.

So Stewart attacks rival evangelists, and other evangelists attack him. If the opposition to Stewart proves him right, then his opposition to his rivals also proves them right. Citing scripture does nothing to clarify the situation: both Stewart and his rivals can and do point to passages to back up their claims. So clearly, mere opposition cannot be used to prove that one is right in this case.

Nice try though.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@#1239168

"Or, just as likely, somebody's trying to troll atheists for the lulz and doing an unremarkable job of it."

"Also, Lauren and Rebecca and whatever are all obviously the same person."

Not only that, but the same troll who's off his trolley. As proven here:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=50160&Page=3

See? It thought that looked all too familiar. Waiter, this pasta is stale!

Now go back to your bridge and molest some goats, trolly-troll, or be reported to Distind and have the Banhammer dropped on you for blatant spamming. It's not the first time this has happened, and you won't be the last one to be b&.

'To all you dumb@$$ ATHEISTS!!!!', 'Mary Grace', 'Rebecca', 'Lauren Edith~ Rose' etc etc have the same IP address, I'll wager.

old comment by Steven

To -Anon-e-moose Who quotes

- "To my knowledge, no Atheist (certainly any prominent ones such as Richard Dawkins) has been convicted of child sex crimes, or related paedophilic acts. Of course not. Because no Atheist would. Why should they contemplate the notion of even thinking of being one? "

~Hmmmm atheist are perfect you say and commit no crimes? Really? Very interesting. Let's look at Jared lee loughner. He is an atheist and let's look at his crimes he commited shall we?! These are the victims: including an assassination attempt on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, Saturday January 8th, 2011.

* 9 year old Christina Greene (who was born on September 11th, 2001) (~In case you did not know 9 years old is a child. It is not paedophilic but it is MURDER)

* Judge John Roll, 63
* Dorthy Murray, 76
* Dorwin Stoddard, 76
* Phyllis Sheck, 79
* Gabriel Zimmerman, 30 (an aide to Congresswoman Giffords)

So, ya see Anon-e-moose atheist can commit crimes just as much as a Christian can. So don't blame Christians for everything. Because you have no idea what you are talking about. You claim atheist commit no crimes and yet atheist do and so do Christians but you cannot blame christians for the world"s problems and it makes you seem rather stupid for doing so! You atheist are no better then christians! Sorry to burst your power bubble :)

old comment by JustinDr.zal

@Anon-e-moose - Well it is not fair to generalize all Christians by calling them trolls just because some people in the Christian religion make mistakes. For example some atheist commit horrible crimes but I don't condemn all atheist. You say, "no Atheist (certainly any prominent ones such as Richard Dawkins) has been convicted of child sex crimes, or related paedophilic acts. Of course not. Because no Atheist would. Why should they contemplate the notion of even thinking of being one?" That's only one example. Your basically saying that atheist commit no child sex crimes/acts EVER. One question- How do YOU know? Do YOU know everyone in the world? Are you GOD? You make a very arrogant statement by saying you know NO such atheist commited child crimes. Maybe they just didn't get caught. Any how if a Christian commited a child sex crime they do not do it in the name of Christianity. I can name a few well known Atheist who commited crimes in the name of Communism.
Joseph Stalin?
Was he not an atheist who commited the most horrible and evil acts?
The Soviet dictator said,
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God... all this talk about God is sheer nonsense."
*Yes he was an atheist!
What about *Pol Pot?
*Yes he was an atheist!
What about *Mao Zedong?
*Yes he was an atheist!
So @Anon-e-moose
Communism is founded on atheistic ideals and beliefs, it is very hard to separate them.
1) Atheist Mao-Tse-Tung: 40 million plus dead
2) Atheist Joseph Stalin: 20 million plus dead
3) Atheist Pol Pot: 2 million dead
4) Atheist Kim-Il-Sung: 5 million dead
5) Atheist Fidel Castro: 1 million dead
6)) China under atheist communist rule: 72,000,000+ dead

old comment by JustinDr.zal

Also communist countries such as the Soviet tried to annihlate religions by destroying religious institutes, churches and executing religious authorities. Religions would have not supported communism thus the Communist Political Party tried to put forth their ideologies through something called, "Scientific Atheism' and this very much operated like religions in the sense that it propagated 'atheistic'ideologies. They even recruited proseletyzers to make people to stop believing in God and join "scientific atheism'. Atheism in general is just the lack of belief in God and has not specific ideology but in 'communist' countries atheism was turned into an ideology and doctrines were written that dicated the moral code of society.

~And don't say Christianity is communist because it is NOT. Also, if you use Hitler as an example then that is sad because he was not a Christian by any means. He hit the Catholic religion hard (nuns, priests) were especially hard hit and targeted for extermination because the Church opposed the Third Reich. Hitler also persecuted Gypsies, Gays and disabled people. His mother might have been Christian but (she was Austrian. Hitler despised religion, especially Christianity.

"Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline."
(Hitler's Table Talk, pp 58-62)

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." [pg 51, Hitler's Table Talk]

"Christianity is the biggest lie the Jews ever told humanity"

-- Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

27th February, 1942, midday:

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

@ JustinDr.zal

Your exposition about the brutality of Stalin, Pol pot, et al isn't so much a comment on atheism as it is a comment on dictatorship. Its like the old cliche about there not being any atheists in foxholes: its an argument against foxholes, not atheism.

In order to secure power, dictators appeal to the mob's emotions. There are many cases of dictators and would-be dictators using the carrot and stick of religion to control the mobs. The communist revolutionaries took a different turn. They pointed to the decadence and aloofness of the churches to stir up the mob against them. They could not have done this if the churches were not storing up treasures for themselves on earth. The communist revolutionaries made the churches a target specifically because the churches were ignoring the message of Jesus.

The best defense against dictators is reason. Biblical literalism, creationism, the institution of biblical law and many other fundamentalist causes spit in the face of reason. I, for one, agree completely with Sinclair Lewis, "If fascism ever comes to American, it will come wrapped in a flag and holding a cross."

"~And don't say Christianity is communist because it is NOT."

Skipped the Book of Acts in Sunday school did you? How about all the times Jesus condemns the accumulation of wealth at the expense of others? The parable of Lazarus and the rich man comes to mind right away. Jesus himself clearly was no friend of economic inequity, and the early Christian communities (according to Acts) tried to abolish distinctions of wealth and class. Just because the so-called gospel of wealth is ubiquitous in fundamentalist circles does not mean that Jesus would have approved.

old comment by Dr.zal

@Dr. Shrinker
Trying to box Jesus, who came in this world 2000 years ago, into this rather new political terms is a rather difficult.
Because Socialism and communism are 19th century political philosophies. Communism never existed back then. All communist regimes, Karl Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin etc. were atheistic. Jesus wanted and not forced *key words* - NOT FORCED the rich to voluntarily give to the poor out of love. There is a difference between charity and theft. With charity, people freely give as much as they want, or none at all. Jesus suggested that people should give, but he never forced it from them.

He would not have supported the forced confiscation of riches by a self-appointed, elitist dictatorship to distribute according to their own whims. He would also have been angry at the way communists have used their power to line their own pockets.
And I really think Jesus goal/will was in changing hearts of men to repent and to go to heaven.
Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. If it was, THEN would His people fight.
John 18:36 Therfore Jesus was not advocating overthrowing existing governments and politicians and redistributing everybody's belongings.
JESUS the Son of God IS NOT a COMMUNIST Dictator!
And the meaning of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is about wealthy people who think they have heaven on earth and forget about God but the poor such as Lazarus know they need God because they are poor and suffer on earth and they know their need of God's help. The Rich man and Lazarus has nothing at all to do with communisim but with spiritual matters.There were numerous rich men in the Bible who were used by God(Job, Luke, Nicodemus, Noah, Moses, Solomon, David, numerous prophets), nothing in God teachings indicate that wealth and the pursuit and maintenance thereof is bad. In fact prudent investment(ahem like in capitalism) is encouraged. God wasn't saying rich can't enter heaven just that their *pride* causes them not to acknowledge their need of a savior!!!!

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

@ Dr.zal

I concede that the term "communism" did not exist in Jesus' time. That being said, the rest of your post is ducking the issue. I invite you to read the aforementioned parable of Lazarus and the rich man. This parable has nothing to do with love. It is an exercise in unabashed intimidation: give up your earthly possessions to the poor or suffer eternal damnation. Some dictators have tried to impose this ideal using the threat of earthly death. Jesus tired to impose it using the threat of damnation. Either way the essential message is the same: give up your earthly wealth or else!

Attempting to deflect the issue by saying that the parable refers to "spiritual matters" illustrates exactly how religion has proven to be disturbingly malleable when it comes to ethical issues. Bible thumpers are always demanding a literal reading of the bible, except when doing so might impose of THEIR desires and activities. There is, in fact, an entire branch of religious writings dedicated to assuring the faithful that the words of their savior should not stand in their way when it comes to doing what they want. It is called, "apologetics."

You also note that Jesus would have been angry about how the communist dictators were lining their own pockets. Perhaps, but how do you think he would have reacted to Pat Robetson? Or Ted Haggard? Or Jerry Falwell, or any of a hundred other preachers who have become fat and wealthy by throwing his around his name (and, ironically, giving the occasional plug for capitalism as well)? Aren't they the spiritual descendants of the money changers that Jesus drove from the temple?

The preachers themselves have a healthy battery of apologetics to explain why their greed and exploitation are okay in god's eyes. I know this, because I've heard it several times. Again, more evidence of the ethical haziness of religion, and another argument in favor of objective reason.

old comment by Dr. Zal

@Dr. Shrinker - you say "Perhaps, but how do you think he would have reacted to Pat Robetson? Or Ted Haggard? Or Jerry Falwell, or any of a hundred other preachers who have become fat and wealthy by throwing his around his name (and, ironically, giving the occasional plug for capitalism as well)? Aren't they the spiritual descendants of the money changers that Jesus drove from the temple? "
I agree with you there and I NEVER said I supported them. Their arrogant and greedy. And money is their only reward. And if they think God gives them the right to so called preach to get people's money then maybe they are not real Christians after all. Yes people are greedy. And *if* they do it for the money well they are big phonies. I will admit some "Christians" just want to make a buck and have the wrong way of thinking. But not all Christians. If I talk about Jesus...I don't do it for money because I could careless. And I agree with you Jesus would be probably very angry at them. The meaning of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is about wealthy people who think they have heaven on earth and forget about God but the poor such as Lazarus knows they need God because they are poor and suffer on earth and they know their need of God's help. God was not saying the rich cannot ever enter heaven just that it is hard because of their *pride* that causes them not to acknowledge/believe their need of a savior!!!! To me that's the meaning but you obviously view it differently.

old comment by Dr.Zal

You also say - "I invite you to read the aforementioned parable of Lazarus and the rich man. This parable has nothing to do with love. It is an exercise in unabashed intimidation: give up your earthly possessions to the poor or suffer eternal damnation. Some dictators have tried to impose this ideal using the threat of earthly death. Jesus tired to impose it using the threat of damnation. Either way the essential message is the same: give up your earthly wealth or else!"

No! You don't have to give up your wealth. Jesus was not a dictator and did not force people to give to the poor. And any how what is so wrong with helping the poor? Also some of God's prophets were wealthy in the OT and they went to heaven. And Jesus said rich people can enter heaven but it would be difficult. But he said it is possible.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
(Matthew 19:24-26)

So as you can see what the Bible says, rich people can get into heaven because with God all things are possible. So, the Bible does say rich people can possibly go to heaven. The fact of the matter is when you suffer you see your need for God. And when your wealthy and have everything...you don't see what you really do need.

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

@ Dr.Zal

Again I say READ THE PARABLE! It says absolutely nothing about what either man believed. It says nothing about how much of his wealth the rich man gave away. All we know is the rich man was rich (i.e. he did not give away all of his excess money) and Lazarus was a beggar. Surely if there was some other issue here besides the distribution of wealth, Jesus would have made some mention of it.

It is true that god rewarded several of his favorites in the OT with earthly wealth (including, ironically, Abraham). This fact proves nothing except that the bible is inconsistent: sometimes wealth is proof of divine favor, sometimes it is a potential pitfall to being "saved." Again, it emphasizes how malleable scriptural ethics are. Clever use of apologetics, and maybe a good PR firm, can make any depth of greed, arrogance and sadism seem not only acceptable, but divinely inspired. The unreasoning masses will lap it up and demand more.

Mind you, I am not saying that religious faith is antithetical to ethics. I am saying that religious faith is unrelated to ethics. Ethical people of faith will act ethically. Unethical people of faith will find ways around what their religion preaches.

My concern is when those unethical people of faith attain power, in the school board, legislature or the presidency. A healthy application of reason can work to prevent this. Indeed, there are reasons to resist communism that are perfectly reasonable. However, it is foolish at best and dangerous at worst to oppose communism, or evolution, or democracy, or anything else simply because it is "unscriptural" (at least when it is interpreted in the way that is most convenient for the person making the point).

old comment by Dr. Zal

@Dr.Shrinker - Of course it does talk about faith in the scripture. In the Hebrew origin Lazarus name means
"God is my help".

So the name obviously has meaning hence Lazarus saw his need for God's help. His name says it all. The rich man is GIVEN NO NAME because he thought he did not need God's help. Otherwise he would not go to hell. In the scripture Luke 16:14

"Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him." Jesus is refering to the Rich Man as a Pharisee who loved money and they hated Jesus and believed Him not to be the Son of God.

Luke 16:15
"And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God."

"And he said unto him, IF THEY HEAR NOT MOSES AND THE PROPHETS, NEITHER WILL THEY BE PERSUADED, THOUGH ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD.”
Luke 16:31 So the scripture does talk about faith.

And also God does not play favorites
"For God does not show favoritism." Romans 2:11

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@JustinDr.zal

*Ahem*:

image

Now, give us just one good reason why Satan shouldn't be more deserving of worship, belief - or respect?

I - as an Atheist - have never killed anyone in my life, nor do I want to, ever. And those supposed 'Atheist' dictators have/had 'Personality Cults' - effectively religions in themselves. Therefore...:

What makes your so-called 'God' think he can justify his own existence, never mind a 'belief' in such? Therefore, how can your own Chrisian religions justify their existences? He is the ultimate hyper-dictator, after all (the whole 'You must believe, or Burn in Hell' thing). One more thing: Hitler was a Christian:

image

"Also, if you use Hitler as an example then that is sad because he was not a Christian by any means."

The above kinda destroys your argument, does it not? If 'he was not a Christian by any means', the care to explain the belt buckle above? (PROTIP: 'Gott Mit Uns' translates as 'God With Us' for the hard of thinking like you).

...oh, and as for 'He hit the Catholic religion hard (nuns, priests) were especially hard hit and targeted for extermination because the Church opposed the Third Reich', cop for this:

image

Yeah. These Catholic priests are being 'hit hard', aren't they? Presumably prior to them being sent to the concentration camps, as part of their being 'targeted for extermination because the Church opposed the Third Reich', amirite?

'I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work.

-Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf"

http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerFaithGod.htm

And the clincher:

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerChristian.htm

I love the smell of annihilated arguments in the morning. Smells like... victory.

Hitler was a right-winger. [/Reverse-Godwin]

Because you have no idea what you are talking about. You claim fundies commit no crimes and yet Christian fundies do and so do Islamic fundies, but you cannot blame Atheists for the world's problems, and it makes you seem rather stupid for doing so! You fundies are worse than animals in the wild (at least they don't kill each other over petty, insane, unjustifiable beliefs). Sorry to burst your power bubble! [spoiler]No I'm not! :P[/spoiler] >:D

Religion has been responsible for more wars, bloodshed and misery than any dictators who were supposedly 'Atheist' (but who weren't in actuality; otherwise, they would have ordered any 'Cult of Personality' to be banned)

@Steven

"atheist can commit crimes* just as much as a Christian can. So don't blame Christians for everything. Because you have no idea what you are talking about. You claim atheist commit no crimes and yet atheist do and so do Christians but you cannot blame christians for the world"s problems and it makes you seem rather stupid for doing so! You atheist are no better then christians! Sorry to burst your power bubble"

So what are you Christians doing about the criminals in your midst?

I don't see no McCarthy-esque witchhunts and show-trials, rooting out, hunting down, exposing to the public eye, and ultimately destroying those Christian wrongdoers, boy. Least of all those who accused others of being 'sinners', but were doing the same thing - or worse - themselves. Put your own house in order, before you think you have the right to criticise/make allegations against others not exactly like you.

As $cientologists would say. 'What are your crimes?'

...oh yes, the reason why there has never been any McCarthy-esque 'broom sweeping clean' right-wing Fundamentalist Christianity in the US is because if there were (and conducted with the same zeal in which supposed 'Communists' were dealt with in the 50s), there'd be no right-wing Fundamentalist Christianity left in the US to believe in. And as for the rest of the right-wing in the US - especially the Repubican Party/GOP:

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/republican-list-of-paedophiles-shocking/

http://dfa.meetup.com/boards/thread/2075382

(courtesy of Zeus Almighty):

* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended
during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after
admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a
convicted child rapist in Florida.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty
to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

* Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was
charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

* Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for
distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

* Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing
his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to
molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in
prison.

* Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a
10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10
years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in
federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

* Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was
sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after
he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=69909&Page=2

They can't be the only ones, eh? How many more...?

And as right-wing Repubicans, they would, by definition, have to be God-fearing Christians (although not enough, it seems!). After all, how many people in the GOP are avowed Atheists? You tell me.

*- At least the secular world has laws to deal with such atrocities. Last time I heard, there was a greater proportion of Christians in prison (certainly in the US) than Atheists.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/prison.htm

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/miscellaneous/17186-prison-statistics-based-religion-vs-education.html

'Protestant 26162 35.008%'

'Atheist 156 0.209%'

How many of them are murderers, I wonder...?

...you were saying?

--EDIT--

And you can add another to the list:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=33060&Page=1

Now if this prime example doesn't prove the more than infinite superiority of we Atheists to you vile right-wing fundies, I don't know what does.

old comment by Dr. Zal

@ Anon-e-moose. You atheist are superior?! Oh for the love of God are you kidding me?
Atheistic ideologies and worldviews have been responsible for their own share of wars and inhumanities. Let's look at the number of killings attributed to non-Christianity, including atheism and other anti-religious forces. To be conservative, we will limit the count of anti-religious killings to the last seventy years or so. First, from the early 1930's to 1945, Hitler's Germany exterminated 6 million Jews and killed about 9 million Christians. Although Hitler was an occultist, he chose the swastika for Germany's emblem; a symbol ancient German Christians used (as did Buddhists). The swastika appeared in the brick work of an old boyhood school he attended of which he had fond memories ("The SS, Alibi of a Nation" by Gerald Reitlinger). But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism, as he stated in one of his shrill orations,
Historically speaking, the Christian religion is nothing but a Jewish sect... After the destruction of Judaism, the extinction of Christian slave morals must follow logically... We are fighting against the perversion of our soundest instincts. ...That poison with which both Jews and Christians have spoiled and soiled the free, wonderful instincts of man and lowered them to the level of doglike fright. Second, the Stalin purges in the Russian republics prior to and continuing after World War II killed roughly 40 to 60 million people; nearly wiping out every Christian church under Stalin's domain. Third, following World War II, China saw to the end of more than 24 million lives during the first ten years of Mao's takeover 4, another 25 million killed or intentionally starved between 1959 and 1962 5, plus an additional 22 million killings in the 1970's Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution.

old comment by Dr. Zal

Fourth, Cambodia suffered more than 2 million killed in its own bloody transition to anti-religious communism after United States forces suffered the fall of what was called Saigon and then largely withdrew from the region.
Fifth, the more recent rulerships within Ethiopia, Uganda, Rwanda, Sudan, and Iraq have each killed, systematically starved, or chemically or biologically poisoned hundreds of thousands of their own citizens. It will likely be decades before full numbers are tallied for these ongoing situations. And sixth, for those who accept abortion as intentional killing (it clearly is, but the debate is over what is actually being killed), an additional 30 million or more cases in the United States alone could be added to the number of irreligious killings (the estimate for the total number of abortions worldwide over the last century is approximately one billion). So to everyone familiar with the Bible's instructions for human conduct, it is obvious which actions throughout history have been truly representative of God and the Bible, and which have not. Any murder in the name of Christ is wrong. But as we have seen, the greatest acts of crime and killing have not been instigated by people professing to follow Jesus. The numbers:

Judaism and Christianity throughout history: 17,000,000

Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years:
6,000,000 + 9,000,000 + 40,000,000 + 24,000,000 + 25,000,000 + 22,000,000 + 2,000,000 + 1,000,000,000 = 1,128,000,000
Thus it is erroneous to state that organized religion, or the name of Christ, is the cause of all or even most of history's killings. Quite to the contrary, modern history shows that the killings associated with the denial of divine authority outnumber the killings of professing Jews and Christians on an order exceeding 66 to 1.

If you think you atheist are superior then you are delusional as well as arrogant.

old comment by Professor M

Dr. Zal --

Yeah, it's easy to attribute atrocities to people you want to shut up when you feel so free to lie.

Plenty of people here and elsewhere will correct you on the Godwin segment -- there's no excuse for that crap.

You also seem to feel quite free to declare that any killing in the name of a dictator whose immediate religious congregation you aren't a member of is an "irreligious" killing, which you rate as reflecting on atheism. That kind of "reasoning" might work on Faux News, but we're a little bit more partial to the "reality-based" approach here on FSTDT.

Also -- most of us don't think that religion is the sole cause even of genocides committed in the name of religion (German, North American, etc.). Tyrants never seem to believe in anything but their own power -- but they often find religion to be useful in extending that power, and religious people are quite capable of being enthusiastic participants. We only bring this up at all because the Christian-supremacists in particular are so fond of insisting that all atheists are brutally violent and all Christians peace-loving. In reality, there seems to be very little connection between religion or lack thereof and willingness to torture and kill. (Some of us will note that here in the U.S., atheists are vastly underrepresented in prison, but this doesn't control for other factors.)

old comment by Joy Kane

Oh my goodness...many atheists blame religion for all the wars on earth. They blame God for the evil on earth brought about by so-called religious zealots. The truth is it is not God or religion; it is man and the evil hearts and minds that dwell in them. The Bible speaks about how mankind without God is essentially evil in heart and mind. With or without religion or God, the evil hearts of men will find a reason to kill and commit all manner of evil. For instance, the Communist governments of Russia, China and other countries have murdered hundreds of millions of their own citizens three times more than have died in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, Korea and the Iran-Irag wars combined. It is estimated that Communist regimes have killed over 100 million of its own citizens, not counting those that were tortured and maimed. Yet, Communism is atheistic. It does not believe in religion or God. Many so-called Christians or Buddhists, or whatever, commit murder and heinous crimes and use God and religion as an excuse or justification. Truth be told, it is the evil heart of men behind most such crimes and unrighteousness. Violent and twisted minds will use religion as an excuse to kill and maim. The Muslim terrorists are an example so with the Christian crusades in the Middle Ages. The same thing is true with greedy men and women.

old comment by Joy Kane

The Bible commands us to take care of the widows, orphans and strangers. But evil minds will steal, kill and destroy, often in the name of religion, be it Christianity, Buddhism or other religion. Christianity is a loving religion. The Bible says that God is love. Not so with natural and carnal man. Many claim to be Christians and yet live according to their own minds and hearts, unchanged by religion. Greedy men will steal and defraud, whether they are Christian or observe any other religion. They will often disguise their evil deeds by claiming that God told them to do it. Many will take advantage of their power and position to take what is not theirs and then let others believe that it was God or religion that caused it. Falsely blaming God and Christianity does not change the truth of the existence and pre-eminence of God. God is still God. Truth is still truth. Truth does not require that you believe it or that most believe it. It just continues being true. You can reject it, lie about it, fight it and ignore it. It just goes on being truth. Truth is not changed by people that twist it and use it to the disadvantage of other people, Hawaiian or otherwise. Blaming Christianity or its God, ignoring it, following other religions and gods or rejecting it doesn’t change it either. Either Christianity is true or it is un-true. To all atheists and people in general stop blaming God and religion!
The fault lies basically in the evil minds and hearts of men. Most religions strive to change mankind’s hearts and minds but are obviously failing for the most part. As Jeremiah, the prophet, said, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jer. 17:9.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Lauren

"David J Stewart is a prophet from God please listen to him I beg you"

Beg all you want. Fact: David J. Stewart is a convicted paedophile. The day I listen to him is the day Gary Glitter has a no. 1 CD/download on iTunes.

"Listen to him"? Paedo nonces have even less right to exist, never mind be listened to. And curious, is it not, how the Bible - the 'Word of God' makes absolutely no mention of so much as word one of condemnation of paedophilia. Therefore God is a paedophile too. And we're supposed to 'worship' such a monster...?! You've just given us more reason to be Atheists. To say nothing of reinforcing what I say: that we Atheists are more than infintely superior to your so-called 'God'. Our morals are superior to his. You've just proved that.

@Dr. Zal

tl;dr. Fact:

image

'Gott Mit Uns translates as 'God With Us' for the hard of thinking like you. Hitler was a right-winger. Hitler was a Christian. God is a hyper-dictator - and killer - like Hitler. Ergo (as explained previously) I am more than infinitely superior to God. Q.E. and D., bitch.

Facts can't lie. People killed. God: 2,038,344. Anon-e-moose: 0.

I think that gives me every right in the world to more than justifiably say that I am superior to your so-called 'God'. When he can't even keep to his own moral standards. I've never killed anyone in my life, nor do I want to, ever. Therefore I can judge him, and he has no right to say/do/think anything but to STFU, leave that 'throne' of his, and offer it to me, whereupon he must bow down and worship me. J'accuse, God!

...besides, I can do one extremely easy thing that your supposed 'omnipotent' God can't (and that's God himself; 'Jesus' doesn't count):

Exist.

So by definition, I must be superior to him! He knows what to do, to prove me wrong. >:D

"But Hitler loathed Christianity as much as Judaism"? Oh yeah. He loathed it so much, he allowed it to be on the belt buckles of his own Wehrmacht. 'Hitler not a Christian', you say...?

image

Oh no more, please Mr. Wilde, I am bereft of ribs!

old comment by Trash Boat

So you hate America, David? Well, America hates you too! America is one of the most beautiful countries in the world! While America may have its own problems, other countries have problems too! America is a huge melting pot for different cultures! Americans are NOT the problem; you are! There's nothing wicked about sending kids to public schools and making sure that they get the best education that they need in order to eventually get a great job, so you can't get the best job without the best education! Education makes us strong! Without schools, kids wouldn't exist and without kids, school probably wouldn't exist either! Oh, and Americans are not ignorant and neither were the "Old Testament Jews"; you're the one who is ignorant because only ignorant cunts like you would deprive kids of the education that they need in order to eventually get a decent job! Would that make you happy if kids would grow up being "so stupid (and I used this term loosely)" that they wouldn't be able to get the best jobs in the world? Would that also make you happy if women would just be slaves to their (selfish) husbands? Would that make you happy if women ended up being reduced into walking baby-factories? Would that make you happy if America gets blown up by terrorists? Well, really, would that make you happy if America gets taken over by other countries, like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or even Afghanistan? Would that make you happy if women let their husbands beat the shit out of them? Well, really, would that make you happy if women stayed with their abusive husbands? Well, you know NOTHING about America! Sure, America may not be perfect, but it's my home and I'm American; I bet all you ever care about is women being slaves to their husbands (and also about children being over-sheltered from the world)! I'm sure even Jesus would be disgusted with you!

David J. Stewart #fundie jesus-is-savior.com

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