As long as the [Boy] scouts take an oath under God, strive to be honest and morally straight, they will be despised by liberals.
Liberals are too morally weak to abide by such an oath, so they label it 'hateful'. It is the liberal way.
57 comments
"Yeah, fuck those liberals. They're so full of hate it just makes me hate them how much they hate stuff and all that."
Aaaaaaaannd... you do not see and hypocrisy in your statement now do you?
As long as the (Boy) scouts take an oath under God
1. Taking oaths is fucking disgusting, no matter who it is to
LOL WUT?
I'm a liberal leaning independent, an atheist, a pro gay marriage person, AND I was also a boy scout. Also, my coworker who's atheist has his son in scouts as well
The BSA doesn't turn away people just because of beliefs anymore.
EDIT: Guess that's only where I live looking at other commenters. Seems like they're still assholes in the rest of the country.
This is the same Boy Scouts that expels anybody who is irreligious or are found to be gay, right?
Yet you have the nerve to call the rest of us "hateful".
Yes, honest like former U.S. Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham and Jack Abramoff, and morally straight like "the Rev." Ted Faggard and former Sen. Larry Craig.
* I am NOT saying that there's anything wrong with being gay, but that there is with being a closet case who cruises men's rooms or who persecutes others for the desires they themselves have.
Our local scouts are run by assholes, who've driven out a lot of the decent folks and persecute their gay son something awful. He is also one of the most annoying people I've ever known, but that's because they're his parents. Before I knew they were bigots, though, the scouts always annoyed me because girlscouts weren't offered any of the opportunities boyscouts were. 'Boys: go to camp, learn to tie knots, help old ladies; girls: support our organization by pressuring people to buy our standardized product.' That's like the only thing they're known for. At least the thinmints are tasty.
Aaaaaaand... Seriously? Oaths are by nature loathsome now, Headache? I mean, fealty has definite self-determination issues associated with it, but promises are now disgusting? Guess you're against marriage, then...huh. Are you sure you're not on this site just to make the rest of us look bad?
I've dealt with the Boy Scouts. Moral is not a word I would use to describe them. Obnoxious sexist little horn dogs is.....
I had the misfortune to be doing graduate work at Indiana University when the National Order of the Arrow conference took it over. Not the best PR for the Boy Scouts.
Despised isn't the right word. I think it's immoral to deny a kid the chance to camp out and be in a club with other kids because he wasn't brainwashed at an early age. I was in the girl Scouts, and I can't recall a single reference to religion or the necessity of belief.
Liberals too morally weak? You mean like all those self proclaimed 'family values' conservatives off shagging their girlfriends, leaving their wives in the dark? Or those conservative preachers, smoking dope and diddling boy hookers?
Back away from that mirror, and stop projecting, ok?
The BSA, being a private organization and primarily funded by the Mormon church, has every right to be homophobic religious bigots. It's when they get federal funding and federal privileges not offered to other similar organizations that I have a problem. Our constitution permits private organizations to be hateful bigots, but the federal government should not be providing any support or funding for hateful bigots.
You don't have a clue what you are talking about, dipshit.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Boy Scouts, on the whole, are about as liberal as a fiftyfive-gallon-drum full of Al Gore and Michael Moore.
In my time there, BSA didn't require scouts to take an oath to any God, didn't kick out competent scoutmasters just because they were gay, and didn't try to convert or shun scouts who were athiests. Those were good days...
As it stands now, any local BSA organization which doesn't act according to the national organization's heterosexual-supremacist and monotheist-supremacist positions (which have been publicly claimed in court by the BSA as the central values of the organization ) is being dishonest and unethical in their association with the organization as a whole. (Yes, that means there's no ethical way to be affiliated with the Boy Scouts, since honest adherence to their policies is still a matter of horrid behavior.) The less-totalitarian local Boy Scout groups just provide cover for the quasi-fascist national organization's constant demands for special status and public funding.
I was a Boy Scout. Luckily my troop leaders (the hate hasn't trickled all the way down from the top yet) didn't care about my atheism.
I hated the way they treated my homosexual counterparts, officially banning them. Also I despised how made they made the loyalty be to God above country, others and yourself. As Penn Jillette said on Bullshit, that is the oath of suicide bombers.
These and many, many others made me quit and make me despise how they are supported by our tax dollars in many ways.
Matthew 5:34-37
"But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."
As usual, fundies don't read their own inerrant book.
Wow, Scouts sounds a bit screwed in the US. Over in Blighty, it's as Berny says - the intent is the main thing (and it's also now "my god" rather than just "god"). As what I suppose is a liberal and a former Air Scout leader, I'd say there's a fair few people out there (in fundie land as well as on here) who know three-fifths of bugger all on the subject.
@Colonel Boris
Still kind of sucks, implying everyone HAS a 'god' to begin with.
But that's certainly better than what we've got, at least.
Welcome to Conservative Dictionary!
liberal liberuhl (n)
Keep pissing on the English language, guys!
Oaths are useless. I prefer action over some wordy bullshit.
And please, i do have a spine. Unlike you spineless dicks, i stand up for the poor and disadvantaged. I contribute to the society with my hands.
Uh... yeah because liberals are so at odds with the Boy Scouts devotion to community service and public works. Right.
I was a Boy Scout, but I didn't make it very far past Webelos. But it wasn't because I'm a gay agnostic liberal. It's because they said I had to write an essay about bird-watching and middle-school!me didn't want to.
"Let your 'yes' stand for 'yes, your 'nay' stand for 'nay'"
No
No oaths allowed according to the wholly babble
But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. Matt 5:34-37
By your own book - in your own saviour's words, oaths are from Satan.
Would that be the same God whose son, Jesus (I'm sure you've heard of him) said, "I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your Yes’ be Yes,’ and your No,’ No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."
Hmm?
Whereas you, Jimbo, are obviously one big fucking ray of sunshine.
By the way--there are liberals in the scouts, too, and they've taken the oath. Ditto for the military.
I have no problem with people striving to be honest and morally "straight" (do you mean morally upright? Or was that a Freudian slip implying that they should just be plain "straight" as well?); the only issue I might conceivably have is that they're taking the oath "under God". I find that rather exclusionist. When I was in Brownies (younger version of Girl Guides, which is basically the girl version of Boy Scouts), I was a little too ADD to really register all the religious undertones of all the songs we sang, but I did somewhat pick up on it and it made me uncomfortable because I wasn't religious.
Still, I don't have a problem with Boy Scouts having religious undertones, because technically that's their right. But I do have a problem with any outright discrimination that might occur because of it.
I don't think such an oath is hateful at all. And if I did, it certainly wouldn't be because I'm "too morally weak to abide by such an oath".
@ NoriMori --
The official position of the BSA is that "to do my duty to God an my country" implies that only monotheists are morally eligible to join the BSA, and that "morally straight" does require heterosexuality -- and that anyone who disagrees with them on either matter is ineligible on moral grounds to be a member . Heterosexual-supremacy and monotheist-supremacy are central "values" of the BSA.
Ahem. Atheist Eagle Scout here. Just a few of my experiences.
At the local level, the adults and kids tend to be normal, decent people. My Scoutmaster was an old Southern Baptist who knew I was an Atheist and still vouched for me during my Eagle Board of Review, where they accepted my answer to "what does 'duty to god and country mean to you?'" as legitimate, even though I talked about serving a higher secular power (the greater good of society) instead.
The Girl Scouts do currently allow Atheist and lesbian leaders, those that disagreed split off to form the American Heritage Girls, who outright call themselves a ministry and hold daily prayer services.
The BSA no longer receives federal funding, if I recall correctly, instead it's now privately funded by various groups (including the Church of Latter-Day Saints), which has interestingly caused the main brass on the National level to become more and more right-wing to mirror their supporters, while the Scouts themselves and the local-level officials are growing more and more liberal in keeping with social change.
Technically, the BSA does not allow "known or avowed" homosexuals or Atheists, according to its legal page, although this is an example of a guideline that local Troops tend to ignore. Just clearing up a few things.
I noticed a post by ProfessorM saying that it is, in fact, unethical for the local Troops to act at odds with official BSA policy. However...change often comes from below. If the actual Troops that interect with the Scouts themselves don't follow the National level's hateful procedures, it keeps a tradition that was founded in good spirit, on good values (back then, assuming members were Christian wasn't actively malicious, but simply a matter of everyone else being Christian) alive. However, the impending clash between the two is going to be interesting to see.
@nazani14
There wasn't? The troop I was in told us the Girl Scout motto was, "On my honor, I will try to serve God and my country, to help people at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout Law".
@ ItsaTim --
Anyone who is a member of the BSA, whatever their intentions, provides funding and support for an organization which considers heterosexual supremacy and borderline theocracy essential points in the organization's efforts. One may conclude that the benefits to individual Scouts and local groups may outweigh the damage done, but it doesn't eliminate that damage -- it just means that those of us who aren't good enough are acceptable collateral damage. And while the BSA might not openly receive public funding, they still have a habit of demanding preferential treatment, reduced-cost access to public property, etc., all of which is de facto public financial support; this has been ruled illegal in a few places, but it doesn't stop the preferential-treatment demands.
I was in the Canadian Souting system until the age of 13, when I decided that Scouts as they were (a vaguely paramilitary group that had weekly meetings, taught classes for badges and went on weekend camping trips) were not nearly as cool as the Royal Canadian Air Cadets (an actual paramilitary group that had weekly meetings, taught classes for credits and went on weekend camping trips, but also got to use real guns and aircraft, as well as summer camps where one got paid and the entire experience counted toward any later military enlistment). Spent the next five years there, gaining the rank of Flight Sergeant and my pilots' license.
Atheist Liberal Eagle Scout here, i'm ashamed to be associated with the organization as a whole. in a perfect world they would be separated into two groups: boy scouts (secular scouts?) and mormon theo-scouts. Even though my district is in portland OR, one of the most gay and atheist friendly locations in the US, i was still told not to mention my non-belief in my board of review
As an atheist, bisexual, self described liberal Eagle Scout, I'd like to say:
Fuck you Jimbo.
Fuck you and all the ignorant assholes who want to use an organization that should be devoted to developing moral fortitude in an increasingly psychotic culture to contribute to that psychosis by promulgating senseless, baseless hatred.
This is why I'm not so keen on the BSA. British Scouting is perfectly fine with pretty much everything (within reason). Yeah, yeah, most meetings are held in church halls and stuff, and we have Church Parades, but that's because of tradition, and you don't have to go if you don't want to. My troop had a Quaker come in to talk to us once.
As another plus, our Law and Promise place way more emphasis on being a good person then serving God - and they don't say WHICH god...
(For those who want to know, the Scout Promise is: "On my honour, I promise to do my best, to do my duty to God and to the [monarch], to help other people, and to keep the Scout Law".)
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
