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Quote# 75587

[Re. a mother who murdered her two children by placing them in her car and pushing the car into a river.]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; this all comes back to contraception.

Separate sex from procreation, make it a hobby or pass time, and try and eliminate the consequences (pregnancy). When contraception fails, no problem, get an abortion, destroy the consequences. Didn’t get an abortion, the next logical step is infanticide, or dumpster babies, cause I didn’t realize how hard it was or how much I would have to give up by not getting an abortion. Next, whats the difference between killing a newborn and a 1 year old, or 2 year old? 1 or two years. You are looking at a 7th and 10th trimester abortion in that car in her mind. If you have the right to contracept a life out of existence, then the line will be blurred from 1 month after conception, 5 months 25 months etc. It devalues all life at all ages because when contraception fails and pregnancy occurs, the user feels “robbed” of their “freedom”, and “entitled” to have what she wanted in the first place, sex without consequences, which is the mentality that contraception encourages.

People who do not know the answer to the following question, will never get it- What is the ONLY thing that is added to a human being after conception until the day they die? Answer- Time. That is why it is irrelevant from the moment of conception until natural death whether or not its form is the same. Is a 2 month old the same person as a 2 year old? Don’t they look different? Is one more developed? Does that mean its a different person or the same? How about when that 2 year old is 20? Are they the same person? Is one more worthy of life? Time changes us, our form, our appearance, our outlook, but it is still the same person whether in single cell, 5 months gestation, 2 years or 97 years old. Until people see that clearly, look for more 4 plus trimester “abortions”.

wombtotomb, Free Republic 62 Comments [8/27/2010 3:54:03 AM]
Fundie Index: 89
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh
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HazelHolly

...WTF does infanticide have to do with contraception/abortion? Seriously.

8/27/2010 4:10:22 AM

London Jew

It certainly does come down to contraception, and man, don't we wish your momma had used some.

8/27/2010 4:34:12 AM

Nowonmai

What does women having the same sexual freedoms that men have, have to do with this woman drowning her kids?

The answer: Nothing.

8/27/2010 4:38:18 AM

Cy

Except the main difference between a foetus and a neonate is that the former is reliant for life on someone's body. The pregnant person's right to determine what happens to their own body is generally understood to apply even if the consequences for the foetus are death.

This is exactly the same reason why we don't force people to donate blood/bone marrow/kidneys/etc, or why we consider it just for a rape victim to use lethal force to defend themselves from the rapist: because their right to control of their own bodies takes precedent.

8/27/2010 4:47:12 AM

ZugTheMegasaurus

I lost it at the invention of "contracept" as a verb.

8/27/2010 4:47:53 AM

Wozza

Idiot. Infantacide has been practiced in many many civilisations over history prior to effective contrception and abortion becoming avaliable, as a means of population (and gender) control. Infantacide is now almost universally illegal. Infantacide therefore has a reverse corellation with conception/abortion.

8/27/2010 4:58:18 AM

Swede

What is the only thing added to a human being after conception?
EVERYTHING, stupid. At conception it's just two cells merging into one cell. That cell has no sense of self, no nervous system, no brain, nothing. It's less of a human being than the skin cells you scratch off your nose when it itches. STOP SCRATCHING IMMEDIATELY!

About 70-90 percent of all fertilized eggs are just flushed out during mensturation. Another 25 percent or so are misscaried. A very small amount of those one minute old merged cells actually become human beings.

After the fetus has gained a rudimentary brain and can feel pain, then I can agree that it is a human being worth preserving. But not at all costs; the woman carying the fetus has sense of self and is more important to society than the fetus.
Most countries have their limit for abortions around the end of the first trimester, when the embryo becomes a fetus.

8/27/2010 5:03:45 AM

aaa

What the fuck is this supposed to be?

8/27/2010 5:15:34 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

look for more 4 plus trimester “abortions”

WTF? wouldn't that by its very definition, be a "quadmester? How many "mesters" are there, if it's 4+.

8/27/2010 5:38:54 AM

Mister Spak

People who do not know the answer to the following question, will never get it-what is the difference between a single cell and a five year old? The answer is obvious to normal people, but christianists will never get it. they live in a fantasy world and are impervious to observable reality.

8/27/2010 5:41:38 AM

Doubting Thomas

Until you Christians start adopting all those unwanted kids, you don't have any right to say that abortion shouldn't be allowed.

And if you can't see the difference between abortion and infanticide, then you're an idiot. Infanticide occurs after children are born, or when you Christians stop caring what happens to them.

8/27/2010 6:30:39 AM

Blasphemina

You are dumber than dirt. There is no excuse for stupidity of this magnitude.

8/27/2010 6:30:40 AM

nutbunny

You're blaming contraception for a mother losing her mind and killing her children?

I don't think you understand ...... much.

8/27/2010 6:30:43 AM

Canadia

Can't help yourself, two children are dead and you have to use it as a chance to push your bullshit.

I really, really, REALLY, hate you.

8/27/2010 6:38:22 AM



I've said it before and I'll say it again; this all comes back to the the ridiculous fundie notion that a clump of cells and tissue is the same as a fully developed human child who has been born.

8/27/2010 6:51:03 AM

The L

1. The word is "pastime," and frankly I don't see what's wrong with enjoying sex. Surely if God made our sex organs the way they are, he wanted us to find the sex act enjoyable?

2. We all know sex makes babies. Even those of us who want babies don't necessarily want them NOW. But some of us are also married/engaged and want to show our devotion to our spouse/fiance(e) in a physical manner. There is nothing wrong with this. I sincerely hope you don't self-flagellate or something every time marital relations don't result in pregnancy for you.

3. Contraception PREVENTS abortions, by preventing pregnancy from happening in the first place. They're also a lot cheaper than abortions OR raising a child. You can buy a condom for less than a dollar at a gas station, for crying out loud! An abortion, on the other hand, costs thousands of dollars and isn't covered by health insurance.

4. Time isn't the only thing that's added. If you don't add PLENTY of food and water, and keep away nasty diseases, that zygote won't last more than about a week. That's the whole reason why the fetus is attached to the mother's body to begin with--it can't eat yet, so it has to siphon nutrients from Mommy.

8/27/2010 7:03:28 AM

shadkat

You're saying that contraception is the cause of this woman drowning her kids?! I think the reason this woman drowned her kids had more to do with some severe mental problem than freaking contraception.

8/27/2010 7:16:48 AM

elphada

Somebody is rambling.

8/27/2010 7:18:52 AM

J-

My favorite part about these "pro-life" guys is while they're SOOOOOOO concerned about the "sanctity of life" for the unborn, there's almost no limit to what should be a death penalty offense and not a country on the planet that doesn't need to be invaded with some shiny, exotic and expensive weapons system. I'm sure that this guy is lamenting that these kids couldn't be killed in some faraway battlefield.

8/27/2010 7:21:30 AM

Pup

"Is a 2 month old the same person as a 2 year old?"

Uh, no, they're very different. You don't really stop being different to your past self.. it's called experience. You obviously dropped yours.

8/27/2010 7:25:09 AM

J-

Oops. Double post.

8/27/2010 7:30:14 AM

dionysus

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathens spill theirs
on the dusty plains
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

8/27/2010 7:35:33 AM

Berny

If you support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the death penalty you have just invalidated your rant.
As for separating sex from procreation, mankind has been doing that since time immemorial. We've always done it for fun. A lot of bastards have been born along the way and abandoned to fend for themselves. Now we have the means to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Those methods aren't always foolproof.
This in no way excuses a mother murdering her kids, but the reason she did it and your rant have nothing in common.

8/27/2010 7:36:56 AM

Pule Thamex

God is the worst offender. He's the ultimate white-coated abortionist. He's always taking people to His bosom before their time. Perhaps He likes to count mens' sperm and show His angels what they would've been like if they'd merged with an egg. And perhaps He likes to line up a womens' eggs and see what they'd turn out to be if they were matched up with a sperm.

Is God for contraception? Because he sure is very late sometimes when he aborts. Or is His plan too deep for mere human understanding? Too deep for mere human understanding, of course, unless you are a fundie dolt-o-zomboid.

8/27/2010 7:47:27 AM

J-

Where's the post birth support for quality of life?

Pro-life means being alive, but life sucks?

8/27/2010 7:55:24 AM
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