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Quote# 75767

We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society. Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation. So we're going to have to win that battle, we're going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things.

Rep. John Fleming (R-LA), Talking Points Memo 73 Comments [9/3/2010 3:55:19 AM]
Fundie Index: 78
WTF?! || meh
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Raskolnikov

By all means, if you could take some of the wackos here of our backs, Europe will oblige to be a happy godless society.

9/3/2010 4:02:07 AM

Aspergus

I suggest you brush up on your history before you do anything else.

9/3/2010 4:05:32 AM

louislois

"...we're going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things."

God doesn't exist.

There. Argument solved.

Now let's focus on the economy and figure out a solution to this global recession the US started...

9/3/2010 4:14:42 AM

The L

Or, we're going to stop acting like idiots and accept the fact that America will continue to have both Christians and atheists for a very long time.

Religious issue solved. NEXT!

9/3/2010 4:26:44 AM

shykid

Omfg, this is so ridic.

It's like GOP/teabagger buzzword salad. I'd seriously call poe if it weren't a politician. This is just that over-the-top in its levels of irony, doublespeak, and general divorcement from reality.

First of all, western Europe? Socialist? Hardly. They're just not so far right they nearly fall off the spectrum.

And, WTF? Either way:
- Socialism != Atheism.
- Capitalism != Christianity.

In fact, you'd think it'd be more the opposite, really, given that you consider atheists to be all selfish and uncharitable due to their godlessness.

And, dude, come on, man:
- Secular != Anti-theist.
- Christian theocracy != Religious freedom.

You wingnuts aren't even trying to appear rational or informed anymore. That last one is literally straight-up doublespeak in its purest form. Calling it that is not hyperbole or ridicule, unlike most other uses of the term—it's simply calling it what it is.

How do people like this manage to infiltrate our government? Holy fuck, people, turn off the FOX News already. Seriously.

9/3/2010 4:30:59 AM

SZD

Since when do religious/conservatives folk care about protecting freedom of speech and individual liberties?

9/3/2010 4:41:38 AM



>We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society.

So, this godless atheist european society regularly elects christian parties. Does this guy even know what he's talking about.

>Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation.

So, this godless atheist socialist european society doesn't have freedom of speech, individual liberties andaren't christian nations.

I guess someone should learn a bit more about europe. Newsflash: we are christian, we just don't have fundies running around screaming we are. We are also atheist, we just don't have fundies running around screaming we are. Not having a religious civil war does not mean not having a religion.

9/3/2010 4:42:14 AM

Pup

Western Europe is socialist?

Wait, what part of freedom of speech, individual liberty, etc, is incompatible with secular society?

9/3/2010 4:51:38 AM

Ketzu

"We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society."

You're overestimating us. Europe isn't that kind of paradise ;)

9/3/2010 5:06:20 AM

Leliel

Thanks to the wonders of the What-If Machine from Futurama, I have a quote from this projected future.

President: "You know, I don't mind the concept of faith and all, I just don't think mine should inform my decisions on behalf of the American people."

American Person: "Eh, okay."

Terrifying. [/sarcasm]

9/3/2010 5:12:09 AM

nutbunny

You've got it the wrong way round.

9/3/2010 5:14:28 AM

Quantum Mechanic

The United States never was a christian nation, you lying sack of ignorant shit.

9/3/2010 5:16:24 AM



Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation.

How do you in any way exhibit a belief in freedom of speech and individual liberties when this entire screed is about forcing your dumbfuck religion onto everyone in the US? And incidentally, Western Europe is not (sadly) a godless, atheist society. Seems you don't know anything about anything really do you? Good to see you're a politician, making decisions that potentially affect millions. Ugh.

9/3/2010 5:32:56 AM

Mister Spak

You're a litle confused. The two choices are freedom of speech and individual liberties, or rule by fundie thugs like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

We're going to have to solve that argument before we can fix any problems. Of coures if the fundie retards win the argument we will continue creating problems.

9/3/2010 5:50:38 AM

aaa

I fail to see anything wrong in becoming more like western europe.

9/3/2010 6:19:36 AM

Doctor Whom

Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation.

If Orwell were alive, he'd be taking notes.

9/3/2010 6:26:57 AM

Swede

You lost me somewhere around believing in freedom of speech and remain a Christian nation.

Most countries in Western Europe are governed by what we consider right-wing parties. Christian Democrats rule quite a lot of countries over here, actually.
Most of us think that religion is our own personal business, not something the state should bother itself with.

Work together? Just as soon as you stop villifying everyone and everything two steps left of fascism, then we can work together.

9/3/2010 6:29:19 AM

dionysus

We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society. Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation.

How the hell is the US going to remain something that it never was in the first place? Also, I wasn't aware that western Europe didn't believe in freedom of speech or individual liberties. Yeah, the UK is a regular ol' Stalinist Russia isn't it? Idiot.

So we're going to have to win that battle, we're going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things.

What argument? All you did was set up a false dichotomy. It's not either atheism and socialism or Christianity and democracy. For one, religious beliefs (or lack there of) are not inextricably tied to any particular political system. In fact, atheism (not being a religion and thus having no dogma) has absolutely no limitations whatsoever with regard to politics and an atheist can be a Stalinist, a libertarian, a socialist, a Nazi, democratic, and every other possible system out there. Furthermore, your dichotomy is wrong. Socialism is FAR more consistent with Christianity than free market capitalism and socialism doesn't necessarily restrict freedom of speech or individual liberties (except for the freedom to screw over the less fortunate as much as you want). Finally, there is no argument about the status of religion in the US; it's a secular democracy where everyone of every faith can get their say not just Christians.

My final thought: It frightens me to no end that our elected officials think this way and seem to be completely oblivious to what this country is really supposed to be about. The only solace I have is the thought that they don't actually think that way but rather are simply pandering to their base.

9/3/2010 6:33:23 AM

Anon-e-moose

"We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society."

Speaking as a left-wing British Atheist, that's a bad thing... how? Being a 'godless, Atheist society' hasn't done us any harm whatsoever, it wouldn't kill you to try it.

"Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation."

The Constitution & the Treaty of Tripoli says otherwise.

"So we're going to have to win that battle, we're going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things."

The way things are going for you lot, P.R.-wise, I'd say right-wing Fundamentalist Christians in the US are failing.

Indeed, the very fact that Obama was elected, and not your beloved McCain & Failin, proves your FAIL.

@dionysus

"My final thought: It frightens me to no end that our elected officials think this way and seem to be completely oblivious to what this country is really supposed to be about. The only solace I have is the thought that they don't actually think that way but rather are simply pandering to their base."

Post-Obama's election, this is the current location of Fleming and his 'base' (what's left of it):


9/3/2010 6:42:58 AM

Doubting Thomas

We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society.

Is that really a bad thing? And most Western European countries aren't socialist, nor are they godless or atheist. It's just that in those countries, most of the population no longer feels a need to believe in a god.

Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation.

How about we compromise and live with freedom of speech, individual liberties, and no government religion? Because, after all, that's what the U.S. Constitution guarantees.

So we're going to have to win that battle

Good luck. But like your fellow teabaggers, you're not going to "take the country back" and force everyone to be Christian. This country never has been and hopefully never will be a Christian country.

9/3/2010 6:51:04 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

"We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society. ..."

OMG! A free society with low crime and the highest standard of living in the world? Oh, the horrors!

9/3/2010 7:11:34 AM

Horsefeathers

"We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society."

One can only hope.

Unfortunately, "socialism" and saying we'll be "just like Europe!" is the new Republican scare tactic to prevent, well, everything. Seems they've updated their playbooks as it used to be "Communism" and "we'll be just like Russia!" that they used to scare the gullible rubes at the polls.

"Or we're going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation."

Europe has freedom of speech. They have individual liberties--arguably more so than we do. They are still largely Christian but they have the common sense to run things in a secular manner.

What was your point again?

"So we're going to have to win that battle, we're going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things."

Solving an argument doesn't happen when your side says, "We're right. Shut the fuck up and like it." Not to mention that it's hard to work together when one side is full of a bunch of xenophobic fear mongers who want to drag the country backwards at least 50 years on a social front.

9/3/2010 7:27:21 AM

Pule Thamex

You already have a godless society Mr Fleming, there is no such entity as God. The real world awaits those who would rise to its challenge and who would say goodbye to the world of fantasy and superstition.

If you indulge in prayer, you are entreating thin air, an invisible wisp, whose only reply might be the faint sigh of a breeze. If you can hear anything more concrete than that, then it is a voice inside your troubled skull.

Yes I know there's probably lots of votes in pandering to the uneducated and the superstitious, but your dignity and your nation's dignity depend on you being sensible. Get a grip man.

9/3/2010 7:41:29 AM

Thinking Allowed

Mr. John Flemming doesn't realize that western Europe has freedom of speech because like the U.S., a lot of the governments are secular.

9/3/2010 7:42:28 AM

breakerslion

False dichotomy. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

9/3/2010 7:57:04 AM
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