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Quote# 75938

(Comment on Stephen Hawking's "God did not create the universe" headline)

What do atheists think about the miraculous events described in the New Testament ? If they read those accounts carefully they will discover tiny details such as would be found in courtroom evidence supporting a case. If the New Testament story had been made up no-one would believe it.

Peter Bannister, The Times Online 83 Comments [9/10/2010 7:13:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 104
Submitted By: Forkie
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Timmythepirate

Is this guy seriously implying that if something is believed in by people it must be true?! Look up the definition of "mass delusion."

9/10/2010 7:19:23 AM



"If the Qu'ran had been made up, no one would believe it."

Argument destroyed.

9/10/2010 7:25:45 AM

Lucilius

If we read the "miraculous" New Testament accounts carefully we discover tiny details such as any fifth-rate hack could spin off in an afternoon, wouldn't suffice to win publication in a junior high literary mag, and only sound remotely convincing to the abysmally gullible.

9/10/2010 7:26:33 AM

David B.

Because courtrooms always admit evidence in the form of a book that claims to have been written by people who say they were inspired by an eyewitness to the events.

That's why CSI is full of scenes where they look on the internet to see if someone has said that someone told them that someone saw the suspect do it. That kind of watertight evidence is called a "slam-dunk."

9/10/2010 7:27:19 AM

Hasher

Fairy tales also have incidental details (Hansel looks back at his pet cat sitting on the roof, the girl offers Rumplestiltskin her ring etc.) So what?

9/10/2010 7:29:13 AM

emau99

A courtroom like the one that found OJ Simpson not guilty of 2 counts of murder, despite a preponderance of evidence to the contrary?

There's more positive evidence that OJ did it than there is for the veracity of the Bible.

The law and the truth are not always the same thing.

9/10/2010 7:30:57 AM

Anon-e-moose

"What do atheists think about the miraculous events described in the New Testament ?"

It's a load of bollocks. Next question.

"If they read those accounts carefully they will discover tiny details such as would be found in courtroom evidence supporting a case."

That's exactly what Creationists like Michael Behe had in Kitzmiller vs. Dover. And even then, the presiding judge, John E. Jones III had no choice but to find for the plaintiffs, thus the final nail in the coffin of the 'Intelligent Design' (a.k.a. 'Creationism by Stealth') vs. Evolution debate. Evolution is now fact. Creationism is lies. The law says so.

PROTIP: Judge John E. Jones III is a Conservative Christian, himself appointed to the Federal bench personally by George Dumbya Bush - a Conservative Christian who believes in Creationism.

"If the New Testament story had been made up no-one would believe it."

'A sucker is born every minute.'

-P.T. Barnum

Now how about a court case, like a 'Reverse-Scopes Monkey Trial', in which fundamentalist religion itself is put on trial to decide it's very right to exist, and clergy - especially right-wing Fundamentalist Christian preachers - are subpoena'd and made to prove* the existence of a 'God', to the satisfaction of the prosecution, judge and jury - to the extent that he must appear in court, like a subpoena'd witness. And when - after the prosecution tells said preacher to make their 'God' appear in court, if as they claim he 'exists', therefore if he can 'create' this universe, this world & all the life on it, then simply appearing in hard solid physical form that can be seen, heard & touched would be a piece of piss by comparison - he can't...!

*- And of course, when asked by the prosecution/defence and/or judge, you must comply.

9/10/2010 7:38:31 AM

Alencon

Details? What details?

9/10/2010 7:40:39 AM

Zeus Almighty

Someone once said something about people like you.
His name was P.T. Barnum.

9/10/2010 7:47:51 AM

Swede

The New Testament does not deal with the creation of the universe, to my knowledge.

Is Harry Potter not made up either then? In book five Sirius Black gives Potter a package at the end of the Christmas vacation. In the beginning of book seven Harry is cleaning his trunk and cuts his finger on the mirror that was in the package. A tiny detail.

Lots of things are certified as true but people still don't believe in them. The moon landing in 1969 for one. The Holocaust during WWII is another example. You will never get every single one of the 6 billion (and change) in this world to agree to anything.

9/10/2010 7:49:00 AM



So the Bible must be true because people believe in it and they believe in it because it must be true? You must be perpetually dizzy.

9/10/2010 7:54:13 AM

Haseri

What's more, Hawking said God is not necessary to create the universe. The weasel word is an important one.

9/10/2010 7:57:58 AM



I'd say if you gave me a few hours or so, I'd be able to write a creation story better than that in the Bible. One that is more theologically, philosophically, scientifically and morally satisfying and sound. Many visitors of this site could do it as well. Not exactly difficult to ramble on about primordial waters, is it?

If I remember right, some say that Genesis was partly intended as a political commentary intended to refute the gentile creation myths. I wouldn't be surprised if it was some kind of satire at everyone else's expense, although that's a bit unlikely.

And funny.

9/10/2010 8:08:38 AM

Thinking Allowed

Well first off, they have to provide evidence that the character of Jesus existed in the first place, along with real evidence to the events happening. Second and third hand accounts from nearly 2000 years ago don't count.

9/10/2010 8:15:20 AM

Unbeliever

This kind of IQ-lowering replies is to be expected. Hawking dropped a major bomb with that book. As a matter of fact, I am rather surprised a wave of theistardic responses is taking so long to form up.

9/10/2010 8:36:58 AM

Horsefeathers

"What do atheists think about the miraculous events described in the New Testament ?"

The same thing that I think about the events described in the holy books of every other religion, which is to say not much.

"If they read those accounts carefully they will discover tiny details such as would be found in courtroom evidence supporting a case."

And? Scientific evidence is not the same kind as legal evidence. In law you can have shaky eye-witness statements, half-ass reports from "expert" witnesses and so on and still win your case. Law is about convincing someone your version of events is right, not about establishing actual truth. Science, which is a search for truth, as far more stringent requirements for what it accepts as evidence and a bunch of anonymous letters written decades or centuries after the fact about events that cannot be verified in the first place aren't going to cut it.

"If the New Testament story had been made up no-one would believe it."

If the Qur'an had been made up, nobody would believe it.

If the Church of Scientology had been made up, nobody would believe it.

If the Egyptian Book of the Dead had been made up, nobody would believe it.

If the Hindu Vedas had been made up, nobody would believe them.

And so on...

Not quite the potent argument you thought it was, is it?

9/10/2010 8:37:33 AM

John_in_Oz

Yeah, details where the witnesses contradict each other to the extent the evidence looks fabricated.
What were Jesus's last words?
How many people visited his grave?
Why does no historical account record the earthquake at Jesus death? The case is 'not proven'.

9/10/2010 8:43:20 AM

London Jew

Who wrote these accounts? When? Where? What evidence did they draw on?

Answer those, we'll maybe talk.

9/10/2010 8:48:20 AM

Musicalbookworm

Yeah 'cause the details totally make an urban legend true.

9/10/2010 9:02:34 AM

I read about the afterlife

"What do atheists think about the miraculous events described in the New Testament?"

That they have the same authenticity as the tales of Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed.

"If they read those accounts carefully they will discover tiny details such as would be found in courtoom evidence supporting a case."

So like, they'd find a doctor who would be able to confirm that the man was blind and that mud and spit from Jesus did in fact cure him? Oh wait, you mean to say that isn't actually in the NT? Hmm.

"If the new Testament story had been made up no-one [sic] would believe it."

If the Koran had been made up no-one would believe it.

See what I did there!

9/10/2010 9:11:26 AM

gaijinlaw

If they read those accounts carefully they will discover tiny details such as would be found in courtroom evidence

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

9/10/2010 9:17:20 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

If they read those accounts carefully they will discover ...

major discrepancies among the four Gospels and numerous inconsistencies throughout the entire New Testament, as well as the Old Testament, showing that the whole Bible is nothing more than a mishmash of mythology and propaganda written by various people during pre-intellectual times.

9/10/2010 9:34:51 AM

freako104

Um...Someone may want to look at laws, talk to judges and lawyers about what evidence WOULD be accepted in court. Also there are many people who believe in Qu'aran, Baghvad Gita, etc. I guess they are not made up

9/10/2010 9:35:23 AM

rallymodeller

READ THE FUCKING BOOK. Hawking and Mlodinow don't say that god doesn't exist, simply that the idea of a god is not necessary for the formation of the universe.

If that makes you uncomfortable, well, then, maybe you should take a look at the strength of your faith. Methinks you are not as much a believer as you think you are.

9/10/2010 9:39:44 AM

Count Dribbler

"If the New Testament story had been made up no-one would believe it."

No one does believe it, except for gullible dimwits.

9/10/2010 10:06:28 AM
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