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Quote# 76259

[President Obama stated that "here in the United States, Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America and that American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions to our country.”]

Islam has always been a part of America? Really? Will Obama provide us with a list of the Muslim Founding Fathers, the Muslim heroes of the American Revolution, the names of the Muslims killed fighting in the Civil War, World War I, and World War II—surely the President will have no trouble coming up with all that, will he? And he could also throw in a list of those “extraordinary contributions” that Muslims have made to our country. Aside from being the impetus for some extraordinary innovations in airport security, I can’t think of any. But I sure Barack Obama must be way ahead of me.

And so for this Ramadan, Barack Obama gave U.S. Muslims a grand mosque at Ground Zero, and an American pedigree as sterling and impeachable as his own. Will this be enough to stop the jihad against the U.S.? Smarter bets would be on its instead growing bolder than ever.

Robert Spencer, Human Events 73 Comments [9/26/2010 2:21:59 PM]
Fundie Index: 44
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh
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aaa

Do these people really think that not doing any research would make themselves look good?

9/27/2010 6:14:38 AM

Doubting Thomas

Heh, I love how they freak out when you suggest that this is an Islamic country. About time they got a taste of their own medicine.

9/27/2010 7:30:18 AM

nazani14

I would imagine that there were some traders from Muslim countries that made their way to New Amsterdam, Boston, etc. They may have run coffee shops, which I call an extraordinary contribution. The Prez is trying to get the Palestinians and the Israelis to play nice, so STFU.

9/27/2010 8:41:52 AM

Brenz

Obama had nothing to do with that mosque other than offering a waffling opinion on it when asked.

9/27/2010 9:45:14 AM

SeekerLancer

Ignorance of history. All the cool kids are doing it.

9/27/2010 10:25:45 AM



@Lucilius:

Yes, that's it! Continue with the logical fallacies. So far I've seen straw man and ad hominem. What will follow? If all you're going to do is focus on Fell's arguments and deny what he found because his critics were pissed about him not following procedure then, we'll, thats all fine with me. I'm more in the Kelly column regarding Fell myself, actually.

But Fell is not the only source. The sources it all started with are sources credited to genuine medieval Arabic and African sources by explorers and travellers. They have written about travels to the West from Africa and Spain. Starting with those, and then looking to certain discoveries from the Columbus era voyages provides us with a certain picture.

Am I saying that Muslims were the majority? No. Am I saying they built grand mosques and buildings? No. But to say that an empire that big famous for it's explorers and expansions was not in the least enticed to see what was on the other side of the sea is not something I can accept.

@Gayatri:

I'm indifferent about people accepting or denying Muslims being in the USA for a long time. I dont really care whether people believe they were here before Columbus or after Columbus, as I believe a lot of groups, from Chinese Buddhists to Europeans had already been to the Americas way before. If people dont want to accept that, that's fine with me.

What I am not indifferent about is people on this site using the same argument you see on RR, namely that if somehow you try to give some information on Muslim history that isnt all doom and gloom and violence that somehow you are a crackpot Muslim who believes in grand conspiracies.

9/27/2010 10:42:20 AM

Felis >:3

Robert, what Obama should be saying is that Islam has always been WELCOME as a part of America, meaning that it's always been ALLOWED.

True, he's flattering the Muslim community, but that's called lip service -- you know, liek he does with your religion.

9/27/2010 11:03:39 AM

Shifty Eyes

Obama said two ideas:
1) Islam has always been a part of America,
2) American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions to out country.

1) Depending on what we mean by America, that's likely true. There were likely Muslim slaves and a free Muslim minority in America since the 18th Century at the latest, as shown by other posts. However, apparently the oldest mosque in the USA is less than 100 years old, meaning it's harder to find solid evidence of the religion having always been practiced in America. Additionally, Morocco was the first country to formally recognize the USA as a sovereign nation.
2) Various activists, scientists, entertainers, and athletes that wikipedia can list for you.

Now, Obama is kind of wrong that in the US, Ramadan is a reminder of that. But perhaps it ought to be and he was reminding us of such facts. That so many of us were unaware shows the need to remind us.

9/27/2010 12:02:34 PM

ireadabouttheafterlife

Thomas Jefferson owned a Koran and hosted dinners on Islamic holidays.

Muslims have fought in our wars. Muslim firefighters died on 9/11 saving others.

And now, Robert Spencer, what have you done?

9/27/2010 1:16:46 PM

Hertzyscowicz

Well, I for one never saw Washington's birth certificate, and I hear he wasn't born in the U.S. either...

9/27/2010 1:27:13 PM

Godbuster

I still think it's ironic that our founders were rich white slave owners from 200 years ago and still are morally superior to this asshole.

9/27/2010 1:49:21 PM

J


The word Mosque wouldn't exist without Islam, and without the word Mosque we couldn't have this retarded "Mosque at Ground Zero" controversy that you and your fellow right-wing nutjobs keep yelling about, which defininitly had an impact on this country, so there.

9/27/2010 2:03:21 PM

Yama the Space Fish

World War II? The US isn't the only country in the world.

9/27/2010 3:54:37 PM

Albionic

Traces of cocaine and nicotine have been found in Egyptian mummies,showing that transatlantic trade predates both the founding of the USA and Islam, so the connection between the Americas and Africa is very old indeed.

9/28/2010 2:26:16 PM

LadyJafaria

@anon: You don't need to prove Muslims/Arabs discovered America to prove this guy is an asshat. He does that all by himself.

@non-anons calling B.S.: Obama doesn't need to prove they discovered America either. The idea that a group of people can't be here unless they were "always" (by whose definition?) here or have made "extraordinary" (again, by whose definition) contributions is profoundly un-American.

There are probably Muslim doctors, nurses, lawyers, policemen, firefighters, engineers, teachers, social workers, et cetera, making more of a difference in one day than Spencer here has made with his whiny bigoted tirades in his whole life. And that's an extraordinary contribution EVEN IF they're not famous people you can namedrop when you have to, as if you should have to.

9/28/2010 4:12:48 PM

Darth Vader

Spencer is partially correct - at least in his first few sentences. While I have a deep respect for Muslim-Americans, the quote from Obama overstates the case. The Islamic community did not play a significant role in founding this country, and what few token Muslims can perhaps be identified from early American history are the exceptions that prove the rule. Islam has not "always" been a part of America any more than Buddhism or Zoroastrianism have been; it is a relatively recent development in America that was introduced with new waves of immigrants. That is not to say that Islamic Americans haven't made a contribution to this country; it's just that Obama is overstating the case from a historical perspective.

9/28/2010 6:54:11 PM

John Robert

Muslims have made extraordinary contributions??? JESUS what NONSENSE!!! I think the contribution of other minorities is much greater then muslims like that of Hinduism or budhism!!! With out Hinduism you would'nt have the Beetles!!!! Islam may have given 2 or 3 nice things but they have taken MORE THAN THREE THOUSAND LIFES OF AMERICAN PEOPLE ON (9/11!!!!!!!!! AND MANY MANY MANY MORE IN THE IRAQ WARS!!!!! All the people here supporting muslims dont know muslims. They think YOU are INFIDELS and DESERVE to be STONED to DEATH and if you ask them if that is true they say no because they are not stupid but you are stupid for trusting them..

@ Gayatri : You rockn,roll buddy!!!!b:Dd

9/28/2010 7:33:01 PM

Amadaun

John Robert, you are at least as bad as Robert Spencer. Especially bringing up those wars as sins of Islam. Do you know how many civilians we have killed there? Innocent and, yes, Muslim civilians? Do you know what we've done to the cultural stability of Iraq? Can you even imagine living in Afghanistan where you've had to rebuild after the foreign armies rolled through every couple of decades all century?

Lucilius, stop being a total asshole.

Everyone complaining about exaggeration: Good god, he's in politics. If he can get by without telling bald-faced lies his morality is in the 'impeccable' range, and if he doesn't make sweeping generalizations no one will notice he said anything. It's a nasty game, but flattery isn't even one of the nasty parts and he's getting flogged for it?

He didn't even say "always an important part," because that's too close to the edge of maybe-too-far. He said they've always been here--verifiable--and that American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions--not verifiable due to the vague nature of the word 'extraordinary,' but perfectly defensible.

Suns and stardust! We're regular jackals. Eesh.

9/28/2010 7:47:26 PM

tranz2deep

Zero is one of the more important mathemathic concepts, and it was developed by arabic scholars.

Admit it, Spence--you're just pissed that Ground Zero got named after a Muslim concept.

9/29/2010 5:21:00 AM

LadyJafaria

@John Robert: Try again. I can't speak for everyone on FSTDT, but I know quite a few Muslims. You don't get your B.A. in Middle Eastern studies without getting to know Muslims.

And most of the Muslims I know are awesome people. The idea that I shouldn't trust my friends is the chocolate-covered stink bug on your shit sundae, and I'm not swallowing any of it.

9/29/2010 7:44:37 PM

DevilsChaplain

@John Robert

I think the only person who is making outrageous claims without ever having met a Muslim would be you. And I think I can safely say:

GO FUCK YOURSELF

9/30/2010 8:13:22 PM



Islam has been part of America, it's a good thing it's never been a SIGNIFICANT part of it. Otherwise the country would be very very different today... not in a good way. And you all know it. Islamic values are opposed to American values. Life? Liberty? Pursuit of Happiness? All men created equal with unalienable rights? None of that would be the case if Islam was a mainstream religion.

6/26/2013 4:38:44 PM

Blarghonius

The only thing getting bolder here is your disregard for reality.

6/26/2013 4:43:10 PM
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