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Quote# 76798

[Gene Cranick's rural Tennessee home was allowed to burn to the ground by the fire department because he never paid a $75 fee for being just outside of the city limits.]

The fire department did the right and Christian thing. The right thing, by the way, is also the Christian thing, because there can be no difference between the two. The right thing to do will always be the Christian thing to do, and the Christian thing to do will always be the right thing to do.

If I somehow think the right thing to do is not the Christian thing to do, then I am either confused about what is right or confused about Christianity, or both.

In this case, critics of the fire department are confused both about right and wrong and about Christianity. And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability.

The Judeo-Christian tradition is clear that we must accept individual responsibility for our own decisions and actions. He who sows to the flesh, we are told, will from the flesh reap corruption. The law of sowing and reaping is a non-repealable law of nature and nature’s God.

We cannot make foolish choices and then get angry at others who will not bail us out when we get ourselves in a jam through our own folly. The same folks who are angry with the South Fulton fire department for not bailing out Mr. Cranick are furious with the federal government for bailing out Wall Street firms, insurance companies, banks, mortgage lenders, and car companies for making terrible decisions. What’s the difference?

Mr. Cranick made a decision - a decision to spend his $75 on something other than fire protection - and thereby was making a choice to accept the risk that goes with it. He had no moral, legal, ethical or Christian claim on the services of the fire department because of choices that he himself made.

Bryan Fischer, Rightly Concerned 108 Comments [10/10/2010 5:47:40 PM]
Fundie Index: 122
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh
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Tiado

Ah, I see this story made it to the mainpage.

But yeah, I have a bone to pick with this whole "only Christians can do the right thing, and all right things are Christian" There are so many Christians who would rather let their fellow man die in a fire than help them. That doesn't seem very right to me.

10/10/2010 8:09:17 PM

Misty

What? Read the bible. Sometimes there's individual responsibility, sometimes there's choice, sometimes God just fucks around with you and makes you do something. There is no line.

And... The firemen should've extenguished the fire...then made him pay the 75 bucks. That would've been the nice thing to do.

10/10/2010 8:12:59 PM

JSS

The priest and the Levite did the right and Christian thing. The right thing, by the way, is also the Christian thing, because there can be no difference between the two. The right thing to do will always be the Christian thing to do, and the Christian thing to do will always be the right thing to do.

If I somehow think the right thing to do is not the Christian thing to do, then I am either confused about what is right or confused about Christianity, or both.

In this case, critics of the the priest and Levite are confused both about right and wrong and about Christianity. And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability.

The Judeo-Christian tradition is clear that we must accept individual responsibility for our own decisions and actions. He who sows to the flesh, we are told, will from the flesh reap corruption. The law of sowing and reaping is a non-repealable law of nature and nature’s God.

We cannot make foolish choices and then get angry at others who will not bail us out when we get ourselves in a jam through our own folly. The same folks who are angry with the those who beat up the poor Jewish man during his trip from Jerusalem to Jericho are furious with the federal government for bailing out Wall Street firms, insurance companies, banks, mortgage lenders, and car companies for making terrible decisions. What’s the difference?

The Jewish man made a decision - a decision to go on a long trip from city to city - and thereby was making a choice to accept the risk that goes with it. He had no moral, legal, ethical or Christian claim on the services of the priest or the Levite because of choices that he himself made.

Same type of situation, and I'm sure Jesus would say the same thing.

10/10/2010 8:47:57 PM

Brenz

Everyone else said it already.

10/10/2010 9:04:22 PM

Shax

This is what rightwing Christians actually believe.

10/10/2010 9:22:17 PM

aaa

So, the rightful thing to do is to tell the guy to go fuck himself? Dude, read your bible.

10/10/2010 9:33:51 PM

Berny

I quite like your Christ, it's your Christians I can't stand. They are so unlike your Christ.
- Mahatma Gandhi

You gotta love Republican Jesus. What a dick.

10/10/2010 9:36:59 PM

Hakar

Christians? Responsible for their own actions!? Hahahaha.

10/10/2010 9:43:21 PM

Kevin Klawitter

Why in the FUCK would somebody have to pay for fire service anyway? Okay, I get he's outside of the city limits, but that's no excuse in my book. If Policemen, ambulances, and ERs worked like this, there'd be hell to pay.

If we keep programs like this going, we'll be inching dangerously close to privatization.

10/10/2010 9:59:42 PM

WMDKitty

Jesus would have put the fire out, whether the homeowners had paid the fee or not. He was just cool like that....

10/10/2010 10:08:38 PM

Thinking Allowed

Just reading the first sentence made my head spin.

Aside from the "christian thing to do" the fire department would have put out the fire without pay.

10/10/2010 10:13:43 PM

Giveitaday

The fire department did the right and Christian thing

So the christian thing to do is ignore the suffering of your fellow man unless they pay an extortion fee first?

The right thing, by the way, is also the Christian thing, because there can be no difference between the two. The right thing to do will always be the Christian thing to do, and the Christian thing to do will always be the right thing to do.

So the Inquisition, witch burnings, wars of religion, countless massacres of muslims, jews, and fellow christians during the crusades, and nearly 1600 years of near edemic anti-semitism that led to countless pogroms and massacres. This idea that the "christian thing to do" is always the right thing to do is complete and utter bullshit, if for no other reason than the christian response to pagans and non believers was to give them an opportunity to convert and then kill them either way.

If I somehow think the right thing to do is not the Christian thing to do, then I am either confused about what is right or confused about Christianity, or both.

That much is painfully apparent.

In this case, critics of the fire department are confused both about right and wrong and about Christianity.

The actions of a taxpayer funded fire department are not and under US law cannot be governed by the worldview of any religion or religious denomination. If it were then there isn't a doubt in my mind that people like yourself would be happy as all fuck to let the hpuses of gays, muslims, and nonbelievers burn to the ground.

And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability.

I'll say this once again, this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with christianity, be it the weak feminized version, or your "ultimate fighting jesus" version. You claim that "feminized christianity" overemphisizes values like charity and compassion, but your version eschews those values alltogether.

The Judeo-Christian tradition

There is no "Judeo-christian tradition". Do you want to know why? Because before WII the christian half of that equation has been to fucking busy murdering and oppressing the jewish half of it. Moreover there is little shared "tradition" seeing as how the bulk of christianty open disregards Old Testament and rabinical law.

The same folks who are angry with the South Fulton fire department for not bailing out Mr. Cranick are furious with the federal government for bailing out Wall Street firms, insurance companies, banks, mortgage lenders, and car companies for making terrible decisions. What’s the difference?

The difference is that the fire dept. is funded tax money that state and county residents can't opt out of.

He had no moral, legal, ethical or Christian claim on the services of the fire department because of choices that he himself made.

This isn't a moral, religious, or ethical issue and your excuses on those grounds are irrelavent. As for a legal claim on the fire dept. services, he does have a legitimate claim that would likely stand up in court. Mr. Cranick is a taxpayer and those taxes constitute the majority of the fire dept. funding, and there is an arguement to be made that an additional fee, without which services wil be withheld, amouts to an extortjon scheme not at all different from the traditional organized crime "protection" racket. If the fire dept wanted or needed additonal funds they should have gone the way of many ambulance services and bill a person on an "as needed" basis instead of denying services to the taxpayers that fund them

10/10/2010 10:32:55 PM

Dr. Razark

@Kevin Klawitter
"Why in the FUCK would somebody have to pay for fire service anyway?"
Because fire departments require funding to operate. We all pay for it. For most of us, it's paid in taxes.

"Okay, I get he's outside of the city limits..."
And therefore he pays no taxes to the city, hence, he's not paying for the fire department.

"...but that's no excuse in my book."
And the city is nice enough to offer service to people outside the city limits. However, as they contribute no taxes to maintain the fire department, they have the option to pay a $75 fee if they wish to have the fire department respond. Mr. Cranick didn't pay (either by choice, or by "forgetting" several times, after several reminders), therefore, he didn't receive service.

"If Policemen, ambulances, and ERs worked like this, there'd be hell to pay."
The last time my vehicle was burglarized in Houston, Dallas police didn't show up to take the report. If my house catches on fire, it'll be the Houston fire department that responds, not San Antonio. (However, if I were willing to pay enough money, perhaps I could have the San Antonio fire department standing by. If I enter an agreement to pay $50 million to SAFD, and they will put out my fire, and then I don't pay them, should I then expect them to put out my fire?)

Mr. Cranick was outside the area served by the city fire department, and chose not to purchase coverage. What would happen if your local fire department only collected income from people they actually put out fires for? How long would they be able to operate?

10/10/2010 10:41:06 PM

Freethink

What happens if someone DOES pay their $75 and somehow, the payment gets lost and there's no record of it? Can anyone see where this could lead? If so, then what? This idea almost seems like the old Mafia "protection" racket. (just noticed Giveitaday came to a similar conclusion).

10/11/2010 12:10:01 AM

loki

This guy sounds more like he is talking about a Neo Fascist-Christian tradition.



10/11/2010 12:19:49 AM

Murdin

"And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability."

That sounds gayer than an entire colony of penguins.

10/11/2010 12:52:39 AM

Nithing

And then Jesus said unto the leper, "Really, this is a case of personal responisiblity. If I heal you then there's no incentive to others to avoid leprosy."

10/11/2010 1:02:36 AM

Canadia

The almighty dollar at work.

10/11/2010 1:52:01 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

"The Judeo-Christian tradition is clear that we must accept individual responsibility for our own decisions and actions. He who sows to the flesh, we are told, will from the flesh reap corruption. The law of sowing and reaping is a non-repealable law of nature and nature’s God. "

...you sure that's not Ayn Rand you're channelling there?


10/11/2010 1:52:10 AM



The Judeo Christian tradition is helping those in help. So, try another religion, please.

10/11/2010 2:18:37 AM

shykid

"And it is because they have fallen prey to a weakened, feminized version of Christianity that is only about softer virtues such as compassion and not in any part about the muscular Christian virtues of individual responsibility and accountability."

Muscular?



Like this? x3

I think "masculine" is the word you were lookin' for, bro.

But since when were compassion and basic human decency considered emasculating?

10/11/2010 2:34:14 AM

Hertzyscowicz

Ah yes, the very heart of Christian charity, as per the Gospel According to Bryan, chapter three, verses five to seven;

5 And verily did the lord Jesus speak unto his disciples
6 "Verily, a true Christian is he who, perceiving a conflagration at his neighbors house, does charge him US$75 for water
7 For verily this is the very heart of Christian charity."

10/11/2010 3:29:02 AM

Orion

@Dr. Razark: Your fire dept system in the USA is at a city/local level? This is a key failing of the structure of services then. The fact that a residence can actually fall out of the zone for a fire department's response is ludicrous.

In Australia fire prevention and control is handled at the state level and funded by state tax money (primarily Goods and Services Tax). This ensures nobodies house burns to the ground just because they didn't pay or forgot to pay or live past some stupid line. A state co-ordinated fire service also has the advantage of being better equipped to conduct broader fire prevention and fire fighting campaigns (especially in dear old bushfire season).

The fact that a man's house burnt to the ground because he didn't shell out $75 is ludicrous. And it discriminates against rural and remote populations.

10/11/2010 3:32:43 AM

ireadabouttheafterlife

"The fire department did the right thing and the christian thing."

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the part in the Bible when Jesus demanded money after performing miracles...

Oh and the difference is that Mr. Cranick is a human being...Wall Street firms are corporations.

10/11/2010 5:26:27 AM

The Lazy One

Couldn't they just have billed him after they put out the fire? That's the sane thing to do...

10/11/2010 5:31:05 AM
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