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Quote# 77074

[Question: Did God use the same design for humans as for monkeys?]

Have you ever gone shopping and seen a whole bunch of really neat skateboards? You might know what type they are because of how they are painted or designed. They are similar because the same company made them. Well, when you look at God’s creation, you find many similarities because the same Maker created them.

God created all living things, and it makes sense that a lot of these share many similar characteristics or design. The same God, the same Designer, created both monkeys and humans and thus there are some similarities. But the differences are also important. Man is not an animal! Our Bible verse here says that man was made in God’s image—a monkey wasn’t.

Man is very different from a monkey. Man can think, he can appreciate and write music, and he can build airplanes and bridges. Monkeys can’t do this. Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation. We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins. Monkeys and animals cannot do that!

Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis 75 Comments [10/25/2010 3:56:08 AM]
Fundie Index: 41
Submitted By: TheCrimsonHeart
WTF?! || meh
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Rumpleforeskin

Ken Ham is a big, shitty arse and nobody should ever listen to him. There, I said it.

10/25/2010 3:58:21 AM

aaa

This is ridiculous in all concievable ways.

10/25/2010 4:19:54 AM

anon

Monkeys (and a lot of other animals like: Elephants, Dolphins, Octopus, Parrots etc.) have been shown to use logic, have self-awareness, are able to do basic math, are using tools, are living in very complex social systems, and show feelings like fear, grief, joy, love etc.

I agree, we humans have extraordinary abilities. But this is the result of an evolutionary process, traits of our thinking abilities are already found in other animals, ours are just magnified. This is another proof why our origin is to be found in earlier mammalia, and NOT in 'God'.

I wonder: Where is the connection between "God created Man" and "Man is able to build airplanes"?

At least, we manage to build airplanes and bridges not because of 'faith', but because of our ability to do science and rational thinking. Faith alone has never ever build a bridge, and faith has never moved mountains.

10/25/2010 4:24:32 AM

Patches

How in the world does the skateboard analogy work with this? That would be a better analogy to use if you were trying to say "You can see all the skateboards are different, but they're all still fundamentally skateboards and do the same thing, thus all the races of the world may be different, but are all human."

A better analogy would be to tell someone to look at two appliances made by the same manufacturer, like a washer and dryer, and point out how they... actually don't have that much in common other than outward appearance.

10/25/2010 4:24:35 AM

Adel Khoury

Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation. We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins. Monkeys and animals cannot do that!
And yet, Mr. Ham, I've heard you do it all the time...
If humans are the only animals (oh, wait, sorry, not animals, silly me) that can be as stupid as that, then I think the monkeys have an advantage.

10/25/2010 4:24:45 AM

WWWWolf

> The same God, the same Designer, created both monkeys and humans and thus there are some similarities. But the differences are also important.

In other words, various things God created have both similarities and differences.

Don't know about you, but to me, this is not exactly an insightful observation. All things have similarities and differences. Go ahead. Try making a rational, methodical comparison between apples and oranges. Or love and trucks.

You failed to explain why the existence of similarities and differences is a sign of deliberate design.

> Man is not an animal! Our Bible verse here says that man was made in God’s image—a monkey wasn’t.

So? The question was about the blatant similarities, not the blatant differences. You admitted there are similarities, and that is supposed to be a sign of the same maker. But what is the purpose of these similarities?

Why are humans similar to monkeys? Why was the design reused? Why wasn't the supposed pinnacle of God's design designed even better? Why did God only give us the ability to climb trees like monkeys do, when it would have made much more sense to make us into, say, indestructible, immortal floating brain-orbs that can manipulate objects telekinetically, or something along those lines?

10/25/2010 4:43:07 AM

Jedi Knight

This is dumb. In that case, we are walking on two legs with muscles and a skeleton that were originally designed for walking on all four. Is your god a stupid and lazy designer, Ken Ham?

10/25/2010 5:02:21 AM

COVIZAPIBETEFOKY

Yes, God used the SAME CRAPPY DESIGN for us as for chimpanzees...

I thought God was supposed to be kinda smart?

10/25/2010 5:15:16 AM

Doubting Thomas

Man has a lot more in common with monkeys than you want to admit.

Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation. We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins. Monkeys and animals cannot do that!

I'm sitting here reading this and thinking that maybe the monkeys are smarter than humans are...

10/25/2010 5:20:27 AM

Mister Spak

Why did god put the same pseudogenes in monkeys and humans?

"Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation. We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins. Monkeys and animals cannot do that!"

Animals don't believe in imaginary spooks!

10/25/2010 5:32:25 AM

nutbunny

"Man is not an animal!"

Biology fail

"We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ"

Reality fail

10/25/2010 5:37:36 AM

David B.

Okay let's go with that, assume God started with a common basic design and tailored it to fit the requirements for either a chimpanzee or a human.

- Aren't we supposed to be God's special creation, not just another generic form with a few tweaks?

- Why did do both designs share common errors? Since the same errors occur in humans and chimps, they must have either come from the "prototype" design, in which case why did that have errors in it, or God made exactly the same error multiple times, how does a "supreme being" do that?

- Why do both designs contain remnants of the same viral diseases at homologous points in their genomes? Surely the prototype design wouldn't incorporate the remains of retroviral infections that never happened, that would mean God tells lies, so how did these viruses infecting both humans and chimpanzees go on to insert their genes at exactly the same place in both, not once but hundreds of times?

- And as if common ERVs with chimpanzees isn't enough, why do we also share homologous ERV sequences with all other apes, and monkeys and lemurs too. That's quite a broad base design.

- If we are created in God's image, why do we have ERVs at all? Does God have them?

10/25/2010 5:38:40 AM

tnskeptic

I am amazed at the number of people both theists and atheists that seem to believe that ape and monkey are interchangeable. Google "ape vs monkey" then resubmit the entry after making corrections. It will still be bullshit but just a little less so.

10/25/2010 5:41:44 AM

KittyKaboom

Adel Khoury, FTW.

10/25/2010 5:42:18 AM

ChrisInManc

Haha, I love the analogy to a skateboard in a pathetic attempt to be 'down with the kids'...

10/25/2010 5:44:43 AM

Doctor Whom

Man can think,

Gordon setters are said to have as much reasoning capacity as 5-to-7-year-old children. I wonder whether the same is true of the average creationist.

he can appreciate and write music,

So can elephants. Parrots can at least appreciate it.

and he can build airplanes and bridges.

Termites can build fairly sophisticated structures.

10/25/2010 6:03:45 AM

Canadia

Ken, your argument has a great number of flaws. One in particular is that you believe animals are unable to think, which is incorrect, in fact, it's proven to be incorrect by virtue of humans being animals, despite what you might believe. Number two being your citing Bible verses as proof of something, it requires that you first prove the Bible verse correct, you have not done this and I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure. Finally, evolution is not a straight line that leads you to build airplanes or appreciate music, it goes in all different directions and nothing is the 'end' or 'best', you can't take what we can do and say 'Hah! we win!' because of it, can you blend in with your environment to protect yourself from predators? no? a chameleon can, I bet they're God's favorite creature, sharing a trait of being invisible (or nearly so).

10/25/2010 6:17:58 AM

uttaku

thats a bit harsh to animals, we all know that all dogs go to heaven.

10/25/2010 6:18:36 AM

TGRwulf

Monkies can't think or appreciate music. Koko would like to have a word with you...

10/25/2010 6:27:42 AM

dionysus

Man is not an animal!

Then what is man, a fungus? Look at our cells, what kind do we have? ANIMAL cells. Look at our chests (though if you look at a woman's bare chest be sure she approves otherwise you might get a kick in the nuts), we have nipples and females have mammary glands, mammaries, like those found in MAMMALS. Additionally, we have a tetrapod body structure, ape limbs, the exact same DEFECTIVE vitamin C gene as other apes (What kind of god would design a defective vitamin gene?), etc. We're animals. Even if we buy your bullshit about being designed we were given animal bodies. Even back before Darwin's time the creationist by default Linnaeus recognized that we were animals even though he also thought (as everyone else did at the time) that we were created.

Our Bible verse here says that man was made in God’s image—a monkey wasn’t.

So god is a modified ape?

Man can think, he can appreciate and write music, and he can build airplanes and bridges. Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation.

And if man is sufficiently zealous about spending eternity with god he'll take one of those airplanes and fly it into one of those bridges. Whether it be to kill infidels or to kill abortion doctors or kill whoever else they imagine their god hates.

We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins. Monkeys and animals cannot do that!

Yeah they can. Never heard of Raptor Jesus? He went extinct for their sins.

10/25/2010 6:28:11 AM

Horsefeathers

"Have you ever gone shopping and seen a whole bunch of really neat skateboards? ... Well, when you look at God’s creation, you find many similarities because the same Maker created them.

Skateboard manufacturers are not omnipotent. Skateboard manufacturers are limited by physical laws as to what they can produce. Skateboard manufacturers are limited in their basic design by the intended function of their product.

Your god is supposed to be omnipotent. None of those reasons apply to him. So, once again, why did your god make his "special creation" using leftover parts with a non-unique template?

"God created all living things, and it makes sense that a lot of these share many similar characteristics or design."

No. It doesn't. Omnipotence; "special creation," etc. You know the routine.

"The same God, the same Designer, created both monkeys and humans and thus there are some similarities."

Yes, yes. You've yet to establish why an omnipotent "designer" would reuse parts and layout for their "special creation."

"But the differences are also important. Man is not an animal!"

I'll issue my standard challenge: If humans are not animals, please reclassify us.

"Our Bible verse here says that man was made in God’s image—a monkey wasn’t."

Funny that we look so much alike then.

"Man is very different from a monkey. Man can think, he can appreciate and write music, and he can build airplanes and bridges. Monkeys can’t do this."

They have neither a need to nor the time.

"Humans can have a relationship with their God, and we can spend eternity with Him if we believe His Word concerning salvation. We can ask forgiveness for our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, who took the punishment for our sins."

So you say. You, however, are a habitual liar at worst or an utterly deceived imbecile at best.

"Monkeys and animals cannot do that!"

And?

10/25/2010 6:43:27 AM

GodotIsWaiting4U

Actually, man was first classified as an animal by the Christian biologist Carl Linnae, who also recognized that humans were, by any meaningful definition, primates. He was also a creationist (pretty much by default), but he was honest enough to actually look at the data and record what he saw there.

Non-human monkeys can think, they can appreciate music, and they can build simple bridges. Sure, they can't write music or build airplanes, but it took us a REALLY long time before we could build airplanes too.

10/25/2010 7:08:19 AM



Ants build bridges.

10/25/2010 7:16:01 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Man is very different from a monkey."

Fair enough. But very close to the common ancestor from which we humans evolved from. How close? Considering that chimpanzees are fairly close to said common ancestor; too close for Creationism's own good:

We humans share at least 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. Care to explain that, Ken?

It all boils down to one of two things (check one):

[ ] To become what we are - Homo Sapiens - then Evolution has done a pretty good job of we becoming what we are. No 'God' required.

[ ] If this body we have - with it's blatant (and many) design flaws - is the best a so-called 'intelligent designer' can come up with, then your so-called 'God' has less intelligence than a lobotomised zombie amoeba with Alzheimer's. Ergo, a 'God' by definition doesn't exist. QED.

Choose wisely. Either way, your so-called 'Creation' case is fucked. If it wasn't already completely annihilated five years ago in Kitzmiller vs. Dover.

10/25/2010 7:57:34 AM

Lucilius

What template did God reuse to build Ken Ham? The dodo?

10/25/2010 8:24:20 AM
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