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"Why is it so important to them to be anti-environmentalism? "
Because of a deal made between big business and fundie leaders.
Big business supplied the candidates, money, access and expertise to win elections. Fundie leaders supplied 35 million retards who vote the way they're told.
As part of the deal, each side agreed to push the other sides agenda. These candidates agreed to be against civil rights,(a fundie issue) and the fundie leaders agreed to demonise pollution control (because it costs it business money to control pollution).
11/18/2010 8:56:25 AM
Oh wonderful, Van is taking douchebaggery to the next level.
11/18/2010 9:03:51 AM
@Zab et al.: It's also a fundie article of faith that Jehovah, known for his peace-loving and considerate ways, will never let people use up all our resources - he'll crap out more oil as fast as we can use it. Thus wasting energy, to them, is "proof" of their faith's correctness: "See? We haven't run out yet! Ain't Republican Jebus good to us?"
I call as witnesses Rep. John Shimkus and former Secretary of the Interior James Watt.
11/18/2010 9:23:12 AM
This is getting to be a weird pattern I'm just now noticing. (I know, where have I been, right?)
They go on about how atheists worship themselves, which just makes no sense at all. Then RRRobert from Quote #77485 a couple days ago talks about homosexuality and abortion being "the gods of the Left." And this guy thinks preserving our environment is a form of Earth Goddess worship?
I'm still holding out hope that some fundies are just really bad at metaphor. Because the alternative is a form of insanity that's both too scary and headdesk-worthy for me to contemplate.
11/18/2010 9:44:56 AM
Saving energy doesn't necessarily mean limiting the CO2 emissions. You can preserve the Earth by many means, stupid.
We here in Sane World have many colors on our palette, not just black and white.
11/18/2010 9:55:38 AM
That's a great idea. All of the Moonbattery crowd holding their breath. Permanently.
11/18/2010 9:56:39 AM
Clearly you're a non-essential imitation of a human being. Stop using our air.
11/18/2010 9:57:44 AM
The quote is neither religiously nor secularly fundamentalist.
Although his language is overblown where he alludes to "homage to the Earth Goddess" and his shot at liberalism, his post is a paraphrase of the WWF's goal: "But there’s more to it than switching off lights for one hour once a year. It’s all about ... working ... to create a ... low carbon future for our planet."
[Weasel words deleted.]
To those of you who wonder "Why is it so important to them to be anti-environmentalism? " keep in mind that the group is as diverse as we are. No one person's opinion represents everybody's opinion.
Over the decades I have accumulated scores of books forecasting environmental dooms as regularly as forecasts of the Rapture. None of them have come true.
We cannot foretell the future from the entrails of a computer. The WWF's 'Earth Hour' propaganda purpose is to persuade us that substantial energy cuts will be as painless as an hour of partying in the dark. It is as dishonest as comparing an hour of camping out in the backyard with being homeless.
11/18/2010 10:18:54 AM
So turning off lights to conserve means the decline of civilization? I mean after all to be a "civil" society we must burn, destroy, pollute, consume, kill, foul-up, and waste. Anything else is civil decline? ...... WOW you people are fucked in the head.
11/18/2010 11:10:56 AM
Well, the whole "switching all lights off for an hour" gig probably ends up in more harm then good. Any radical change to the load on the electrical distribution system is not healthy - and you add 2 new load points.
11/18/2010 11:17:22 AM
I've always been inclined to the theory that certain people are rabidly anti-environmentalist because they're
1. very, VERY afraid of what we as a race have done and afraid of where that will lead, and denying it is easier than tackling it, and/or
2. offended by the idea that as the top of the heap (in their eyes anyway) humans should have to modify their behaviour in any way because naturally we're the best we don't have to do that and/or
3. a combination of the above two items, unwilling to accept responsibility for what the human race has done to our resources.
.... so in short no I don't think it's business motivated :P
11/18/2010 11:23:50 AM
While I'm not actually recommending it for you, John_in_Oz, consider jumping off a 1,000-foot cliff. Report to us at one-foot intervals that it doesn't really hurt at all. The fact that you'll be right 999 times will not encourage the rest of us to follow you.
While some environmentalist books do have a poor track record of accuracy, very few join Rapturites in screaming "The world's going to end tomorrow!" Most that I've seen do raise alarms, but say "Unless we start dealing with these issues now, we'll have enormous problems in coming decades." That we're still alive in 2010 does not automatically mean we're home free.
11/18/2010 11:25:35 AM
Fundies actually have a theological explanation for their anti-environmentalism. It is twofold:
1. God gave man through Adam "dominion" over the earth, therefore, in their minds, it is ours to destroy.
2.In their eschatology, this world is supposed to be destroyed to make way for a new world that comes after the return of Christ (after the Rapture and Tribulation according to most of them). Anything we can do now to go ahead and destroy this world will just move things along.
More liberal Christian theology, including most mainline Protestant churches, Catholic, and Orthodox sees man's "dominion" as a call to care for the earth not destroy it and does not share their eschatology.
11/18/2010 11:29:05 AM
The WWF's 'Earth Hour' propaganda purpose is to persuade us that substantial energy cuts will be as painless as an hour of partying in the dark. It is as dishonest as comparing an hour of camping out in the backyard with being homeless. <<
I call Strawman, John_in_Oz.
The purpose of Earth Hour is to demonstrate that you can survive just fine without much that you consider essential.
It is not anything like comparing an hour of camping out to being homeless.
It, however, almost exactly like saying that the USA should have an average standard of living like that of France, Germany, or Japan. Carbon emissions per capita in those countries is half of what it is in the USA. Cuts further than that require new power plants, be they nuclear or solar (which is why the Swiss are at 27% percent of our level of emissions per person), and reforms to over land freight.
Breathing also emits CO2. Maybe instead of "Earth Hour" we should try "Earth Minute," where we save the polar bears by holding our breath. <<
This is fundie, in my understanding. To use such a blatant strawman like that requires a total misunderstanding of the problems of climate change. Either Van Helsing is honestly misinformed, or lying. I am tempted to apply Hanlon's Razor, but I suspect that this is willful deception.
11/18/2010 11:34:19 AM
I think you're kind of missing the point of Earth Hour. And nobody's proposing shutting off the lights of an operating theater. That would be stupid.
And who's longing to live in the darkness, exactly? Liberals don't want to burn gays, suppress science, and persecute non-Christians. So shut up.
11/18/2010 12:09:20 PM
While I think that "Earth Hour" is a farce Van Helsing here needs to calm down and get a grip on reality.
11/18/2010 12:11:08 PM
Let's just hope Van Helsing doesn't breed....
11/18/2010 12:33:36 PM
"Over the decades I have accumulated scores of books forecasting environmental dooms as regularly as forecasts of the Rapture. None of them have come true."
"Climatic Change: Are We on the Brink of a Pronounced Global Warming?"
Wallace S. Broecker - Science, August, 189:460-463 (1975).
"If man-made dust is unimportant as a major cause of climatic change, then a strong case can be made that the present cooling trend will, within a decade or so, give way to a pronounced warming induced by carbon dioxide. By analogy with similar events in the past, the natural climatic cooling which, since 1940, has more than compensated for the carbon dioxide effect, will soon bottom out. Once this happens, the exponential rise in the atmospheric carbon dioxide content will tend to become a significant factor and by early in the next century will have driven the mean planetary temperature beyond the limits experienced during the last 1000 years."
Yeah, fucking scientists, always changing their minds.
11/18/2010 12:43:37 PM
Dracula needs to come back and kill you.
11/18/2010 1:15:08 PM
This guy needs to start writing creative science fiction. He could be good.
11/18/2010 1:48:06 PM
No, just refusing to participate in environmentally friendly actions is still too liberal. We should be actively trying to accelerate pollution and climate change. We should be putting smoke stacks on everything and using up as much oil as possible. In fact, we should have a giant smokestack in the middle of every city whose only purpose is to burn oil and send it straight into the atmosphere. We should also dump all of our toxic waste including nuclear waste into rivers and lakes. It's what Jesus would have wanted.
11/18/2010 1:49:25 PM
> As one who grew up during the 70's energy crisis, it was always just common sense to turn off lights when you leave the room. Now it's apparently part of the willful decline of civilization.
Exactly. My mum and dad were born in the 1930s and grew up with the war and the years of rationing which lasted after it. Because of their experience they taught me never to waste anything, and always to make the best of what I had and what I could afford. It's common sense under any circumstance, then and now.
11/18/2010 2:00:31 PM
Electricity for jesus?
11/18/2010 2:44:47 PM
People whose range of thinking does not go a millimeter beyond the point of their noses do not deserve to have answers handed to them on a place. In other words, learn to think and the answer will be clear.
11/18/2010 2:49:59 PM
This is the madness caused by the False Dichotomy. Conservatards like Van Helsing have the "us versus them" mentality ingrained in their minds so firmly that they will never agree with anything liberals propose, no matter how logical and rational it may be. For example, the refusal to conserve natural resources in the slightest, even to save money. They are willing to charge their own electric bills out the wazoo and merrily use up their own resources, just to annoy liberals. The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" springs to mind.
11/18/2010 3:11:00 PM
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