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Quote# 77621

Evolution Must be Combatted

The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized. If belief in Adam and Eve is destroyed, then our entire Catholic Faith falls to pieces.

Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist.

If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin.

If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.

If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.

If there is no such thing as the Sacrifice of the Cross then there is no such thing as the sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc., etc.

Evolution: Critical for the Atheist Agenda

Why is evolution kept alive? Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead? That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution? Because ___ if evolution is taken away, practically every major world view of our modern day will have nothing to support it and will come crashing to the ground. Modernism. Communism. Secular Humanism. Eugenics. The New Age Movement and even the atheistic United Nations ___ are all based upon the theory of evolution and could not survive without it. Take evolution away, and it would destroy the entire godless superstructure of our modern world in which all these erroneous ideas and institutions reign supreme.

John Vennari, Catholic Apologetics 106 Comments [11/24/2010 7:38:51 AM]
Fundie Index: 92
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh
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LC

He's so close to getting it! Just a little bit further!

11/24/2010 7:40:38 AM

Em Finn

Ah the glorious frailty of faith and Dogma. Kept alive solely by Denial, Lies and Deceit.

The writer was soooo close to enlightenment up till the closing paragraph.

11/24/2010 7:43:01 AM

boingo

When reality contradicts belief, deny reality... Is that the strategy? You're almost there, take it one step further!

11/24/2010 7:44:34 AM

Doctor Whom

Brother Frankie will lead us in our closing hymn:



Oh, and John Vennari fails both reality and his own church's doctrine forever.

11/24/2010 7:44:56 AM

Grey Seer

+The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized.+

I agree.

+Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist. If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin. +

Yup. Hence why many people are drifting away from religion.

+If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin. If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.+

Getting there. That part of your religion always struck me as wrong anyway - that we are damned on account of what someone did thousands of years ago, or that a man (a pretty cool guy, even) had to die an agonising death to make up for it. Kinda makes your God out to be a bit of a bastard, really.

+Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead? That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution?+

Because it's not, and there isn't. I mean, really. Scientists are not perpetuating some sort of conspiracy here, it's just that your damning evidence happens to be complete bullshit.

*sigh*

And here I was holding out hope, right up until that last paragraph.

11/24/2010 7:49:23 AM

practical god

By all means, do your part to protest evolution. Refuse to evolve. Don't procreate.

11/24/2010 7:52:39 AM

Freethinker

Line two to seven makes for sound reasoning.

Just. one. step. more...

Awww, failed in the last sentence

11/24/2010 7:55:37 AM

EMT420

If a, then b. If b, then c. If c, then pancakes.

Of course.

11/24/2010 7:58:08 AM

Table Rock

He completely wrong about religion and science. At least he's consistent.

11/24/2010 7:59:51 AM

JohnTheAtheist

I am always stunned when I realize that there are people so stupid in this world that believe that Adam and Eve literally existed. Blows my fucking mind.

11/24/2010 8:00:55 AM

Alleyprowler

"Evolution Must be Combatted"

Good luck with that.

11/24/2010 8:02:50 AM

Brendan Rizzo

This is the paranoid ramblings of a conspiracy theorist. We have a twofer, ladies and gentlemen. The United Nations? The United Nations? Really, Mr. Vennari?

At least he didn't claim that democracy needs evolution to exist, because if he had then he would have failed history forever even more egregiously than he already has. But herein lies the question: why is fascism not on his list of Evil Atheist Evolutionist Things (TM)? Suspicious...

11/24/2010 8:04:00 AM

John_in_Oz

Lets get rid of that pesky gravity too!

11/24/2010 8:08:47 AM

Bad Wolf

The entire concept of original sin is a large part of his problem as I see it. If you replace "original sin" with "universal sin" (meaning the principle that everybody sins in one way or another) then the need for redemtion. Even hardcore Atheists would agree that they have done things in their life about which they are not proud. And quite often even the most arrogant SOB will recognize that apologizing to the person injured goes a long way to healing the pain.

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnessairily" L.Long

11/24/2010 8:09:53 AM

D Laurier

This is too bizzare for words...

Evolution Must be Combatted
Fine, Stop breeding.


11/24/2010 8:15:10 AM

Doubting Thomas

Yes, actually you're so close to understanding why I stopped being a Catholic. But instead of desperately clinging to outdated superstitious beliefs, I made the jump to logic & reason.

But I disagree re: "atheist agenda," whatever that is. Here's a clue: There is no atheist agenda, it's just that reality has an atheistic bias.

11/24/2010 8:17:39 AM

Stryper

wait what??!! Eugenics??!!

okay you lost me how is that even relevent to modern society?

11/24/2010 8:20:05 AM

christian leftie

"The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized."
Even though it isn't recognised in mainstream Christianity.

"Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist."
Not true, it's just that Adam and Eve as they exist in your specific interpretation did not exist.

"If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.

If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins."

However, that presupposes that we ONLY needed to be saved from original sin, not all sin.

"Why is evolution kept alive? Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead? That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution?"
Because there is no such evidence and the majority of Christianity accepts Evolution.

"are all based upon the theory of evolution and could not survive without it."
The only modern, secular theory associated with the principals of evolution is free market capitalism.

11/24/2010 8:20:44 AM



Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead?

We have been told this constantly for the last 150 years. It keeps not being true.

11/24/2010 8:23:58 AM

Tardis

>That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution

And just what would that be?

Really...all you have to do to claim your Nobel prize is overturn evolution...either the Darwinian kind or Modren Evolution Theory...

11/24/2010 8:25:05 AM

Papabear

So, reality, facts and logic must be combatted lest you and your lot be brought out of your ridiculous delusions? Forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for that idea.

Modernism? What's wrong with us not living in the bronze age?

Communism? Already failed.

Secular Humanism? Here again, paying attention to reality and caring about the human condition seem OK with me.

Eugenics? No one in his right mind is contemplating eugenics.

Get a grip and grow up.

11/24/2010 8:25:51 AM

Anon

His first points are astonishingly correct. But, yes, failed on the last yard.

One thought I have for quite some time: Such Fundies are strongly opposed to evolution, but on the other hand are usually fierce proponents of "free market economy". I suspect this fundie also; at least he seems to be strongly opposed to Communism.

This is a paradox I never understood. On the one hand, they acknowledge that the "free forces of the markets" lead to the "invisible hand", which leads to the best result possible. The "free market proponents" say that we need a completely free market where among a myriad of business ideas those will flourish who are best adapted to the current business environment.

This is more or less the same principle in the business realm as Evolution in the realm of biology.

On the other hand, the Fundies submit themselves instantly and willingly under a dictatorial "planned economy". With God = Beloved Leader Who Must Not Be Questioned, and "God's holy 2000-year plan". This is exactly the same evil principle of Communism.

And there are a lot more analogies between Christianity and Communism, including Veneration of Saints (Che Guevara), "Holy Scriptures" (The Capital), Church Fathers (Marx, Lenin, Engels), and the weird idea of an Apocalypse (The World Revolution), in which the Forces of Evil (Capitalism) will be overthrown, and afterwards we will allegedly live in a Paradise, forever happy.

Christopher Hitchens once called the Christian Heaven the "Celestial North Korea". And this analogy is shockingly right. It's more or less a "CCCP", the Celestial Christian Communion Party.

11/24/2010 8:26:59 AM

aaa

Thanks for the laugh. Your argument is downright pitiful.

11/24/2010 8:29:12 AM

John

Vennari is disputed by the Vatican:

"the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, 1950, Humani Generis 36).

"Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical [i.e., Humani Generis], new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory." (John Paul II, 1996, Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences)

In other words, God creates the immortal soul. How He gets the mortal flesh to put it in - whether by evolution or some other means - is a matter for scientists, not an issue of Catholic faith.

11/24/2010 8:30:48 AM

jorma

Communism is a political ideology. Not biology. In fact none of the things you listed have much to do with biology.

11/24/2010 8:41:58 AM
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