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So, it's far more important to keep fighting scientific advancement so you can keep clinging to your ancient superstition than to accept what learned study shows us to be true? You might as well keep fighting heliocentrism and round earth theory, too. While you're at it, don't forget to keep fighting against germ theory, too, since after all, all illnesses are caused by God punishing us for our sins against him.
And when I was religious, I always thought the idea of original sin to be ridiculous, since it's totally unfair to punish all of humanity for what the (supposed) first two humans did, not to mention having to send yourself to die as a sacrifice to yourself to save humanity from yourself.
11/24/2010 12:15:36 PM
So friggin close dude. It's like a stack of dominoes that just won't fall.
11/24/2010 12:17:00 PM
All those things have one commonality with biology: They're constantly misrepresented by fundie idiots.
11/24/2010 12:32:01 PM
"A definite case of Did Not Do The Research, methinks. Ah, but then if such people did more research (and not quote parrot-fashion from Faux News, their pastors etc), then they wouldn't be ignorant fundies in the first place. "
Well, he is
saying that "there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution". "Evidence" of this kind
, I guess.
11/24/2010 12:36:27 PM
Your reasoning nearly bears fruit John, this is how it actually goes:-
Evolution and Sacred Scripture are indeed incompatible. Evolution belongs to the world of reality, whereas Sacred Scripture belongs to the world of delusion, silly games and dressing up as a super-villain.
Therefore, because evolution is true, Adam & Eve did not exist.
Therefore, there is no such thing as sin, let alone original sin.
Therefore, there is no reason to be redeemed from something that did not happen.
Therefore, there is no reason for Jesus or any other figure to die for sins.
Therefore, there is no need for the sacrifice of the Mass etc., etc., etc.
Therefore, there is no need for Catholic Fathers.
Therefore, there is no need for child abuse and the sodomizing of young boys by predatory bastards and pedophiles pretending to be human beings representing a magical God. Therefore, there will not be a reason to forgive any unfortunate victims.
Pule Thamex on behalf of Victims of Catholic Abuse Apologetics.
PS. Fuck off you child abuse supporter. (Deliberately fostering erroneous beliefs, counter to reality, is abusing children educationally as well as the sexual abuse.)
11/24/2010 12:48:11 PM
Catholic creationists have always puzzled me. The Vatican says that they are perfectly fine with the idea that the theory of evolution is true. The Vatican is fine with the idea that evolution has, and continues to, happen.
Believe me, the theory of evolution is not the Catholic Church's biggest problem at the moment.
I'll agree that without Adam and Eve literally existing, the idea that we need Jesus to die on the cross because of Original Sin kind of falls apart. Mind you, I think that the story kind of falls apart under it's sheer ridiculousness even without bringing up the fact that Original Sin cannot exist.
But as plenty of people are Christians and accept evolution, some people are clearly capable of reconciling the two. I've heard people try to explain how science and Christianity are perfectly compatible. I still don't understand it, but they really seem capable of some stunning mental gymnastics and perfectly able to hold the belief that science and Christianity are not only compatible, but complementary.
And while I might be confused as to how they can hold positions which seem entirely contradictory to me, the Christians out there who have no problem with science are the least of Christianity's problems.
Look, if every Catholic was Ken Miller, I'd probably actually like the Catholic Church. Sure, I'd still think it was wrong about the whole God thing, but it wouldn't be causing anyone harm and it would be promoting science and critical thinking ( . . . except for the God thing, but, hey, nobody's perfect).
11/24/2010 12:50:47 PM
Just to clarify, these assholes on Catholic Apologetics oppose everything from Vatican II onward. That means Creationism, charging the Jews with deicide, etc. etc. Basically they started opposing the Vatican when they started playing nice(r).
11/24/2010 12:57:25 PM
Bit late to the party aren't you John?
11/24/2010 1:04:30 PM
Step ... step ... step ... step ... step ... CRASH!
11/24/2010 1:06:35 PM
But wait, doesn't the Catholic church accept evolution to a certain degree?
11/24/2010 1:47:43 PM
Whoa, fumbled at the 1-yard line.
11/24/2010 2:50:22 PM
That's actually a beautifully succinct summary of how evolution could destroy christian nonsense. Pity I don't (think) I know any creationists.
11/24/2010 3:26:34 PM
"But wait, doesn't the Catholic church accept evolution to a certain degree?"
They only start accepting popular ideas when they become too dominant for the Catholic church to resist... otherwise the Catholic church would start to look like an irrelevant old relic even to it's supporters and believers. This is their way of retaining control, by feigning relevance. So even when they are appearing to capitulate, they're only doing it to stay in power. The recent change in their stance on condoms is a classic example of this. They know they can't retain their position of authority if most of the rest of civilisation thinks differently from them.
11/24/2010 3:28:00 PM
My argument pretty much matches christian leftie's argument....pointing out Vennari's stupidity from a Theist's point of view....both Atheists & Theists have made some good points here. As a Theist, I say The Eden Story was a metaphor, "Original Sin" is "universal Sin" (Sin being the stupid, mean, distructive things people do, 'Sin' being 'imperfection', 'The Dark Side' or 'Hobbes' view') and Faith/Religion & Reason/Logic needn't oppose each other.
MY THOUGHTS ON...
MODERNISM - The "Old Days" were filthy, brutish & short...why would you want to go back there?
COMMUNISM - May have been a neat idea on paper but it doesn't work...and Communist countries are actually Fascist countries with "Red Paint".
SECULAR HUMANISM - Cuz we're pond scum & should hate ourselves & bow to you, right?
EUGENICS - Disgusting & horrible. We don't want it! Religious ethnobigots promoted it. Please quit sniffin' the glue, John.
NEW AGE - Don't dig competition huh, meatball?
UNITED NATIONS - You mean "The International Bunch Of Guys In A Big Room Arguing & Accomplishing Nothing In Paticular"? The Horror! The Horror! (Though the idea behind it is good...needs better people & reforms...maybe it'll achive it's goal of peace & unity).
In conclusion, John Vennari is a First-Class Tapioca Head, please throw rocks at him & give him a wedgie!
11/24/2010 3:48:47 PM
Evolution Must be Combatted
Yeah, okay. While you're at it, how about joining the fight against masturbation?
The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized.
Oh, it is! It is!
If belief in Adam and Eve is destroyed, then our entire Catholic Faith falls to pieces.
Sucks to be you, then.
Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist.
Give the man a see-gar!
If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin.
If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.
If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.
If there is no such thing as the Sacrifice of the Cross then there is no such thing as the sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc., etc.
By George! I believe he's got it! Re-lig-ion's reign is bullshit in the main! ...
Evolution: Critical for the Atheist Agenda
Atheist agenda: 1. Have breakfast. 2. Make money to buy stuff. 3. Buy stuff. 4. Enjoy life while we have it. 5. Don't listen to silly twats in weird costumes selling false promises. 6. Repeat, etc.
Why is evolution kept alive? Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead?
Bu-but... There are plenty of bullshit artists singing that song! What do you mean? You were so close!
11/24/2010 4:23:40 PM
Catching on to reality can be a real bitch.
As for evolution and politics... I don't think so.
11/24/2010 5:22:28 PM
If reality is true, then our worldview will crash to the ground! We must reject reality and substitute our own!
11/24/2010 5:34:02 PM
Evolution = Scientific thory
Evolution=/= Political agenda or world view
Political views, social structures, and governments are not dependent upon the existence or non-existence of god or gods.
You are a dumbass.
11/24/2010 5:43:00 PM
Why is evolution kept alive? Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead? That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution?
Because there is no evidence that evolution is fatally flawed. Quite the contrary. What is fatally flawed is your Bronze Age creation fable. You sir are a retard.
11/24/2010 5:48:37 PM
For a moment, I thought this was Assfly, but then I got to the bit about the "Blessed Trinity" and went, "fucking Catholics."
11/24/2010 6:59:23 PM
"Evolution: Critical for the Atheist Agenda"
Atheists have an agenda like people who don't collect stamps have an agenda to get everyone else to not collect stamps with them.
11/24/2010 8:27:10 PM
Uh yup. Sorry.
11/24/2010 8:28:10 PM
Someone doesn't listen to their church leaders much, huh?
11/24/2010 8:42:17 PM
You're a heretic! The Vatican recognizes human evolution from "lesser" primates. Catholic doctrine just says that at some point God gave an animal a soul. While you're re-learning your own religion, be sure to check out what the Vatican says about the big bang theory, too.
11/24/2010 9:03:29 PM
I agreed with you up to your bullshit about "Darwinism is dead".
What devastating evidence? "Oh lawdy, we can't find a fossil that goes between these two"?
11/24/2010 9:13:23 PM
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