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Quote# 77621

Evolution Must be Combatted

The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized. If belief in Adam and Eve is destroyed, then our entire Catholic Faith falls to pieces.

Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist.

If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin.

If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.

If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.

If there is no such thing as the Sacrifice of the Cross then there is no such thing as the sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc., etc.

Evolution: Critical for the Atheist Agenda

Why is evolution kept alive? Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead? That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution? Because ___ if evolution is taken away, practically every major world view of our modern day will have nothing to support it and will come crashing to the ground. Modernism. Communism. Secular Humanism. Eugenics. The New Age Movement and even the atheistic United Nations ___ are all based upon the theory of evolution and could not survive without it. Take evolution away, and it would destroy the entire godless superstructure of our modern world in which all these erroneous ideas and institutions reign supreme.

John Vennari, Catholic Apologetics 106 Comments [11/24/2010 7:38:51 AM]
Fundie Index: 93
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh
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Alencon

Let me simplify this one for you John. If Evolution is true, then Christianity is total and complete bullshit.

And Evolution is true.

11/24/2010 9:42:58 PM

Slavaa

To the 3rd to 7th lines: I'm glad we see eye to eye.

As for the 2nd and 3rd rhetorical questions of the final paragraph: Because that would be what we moral people call "a lie."

11/24/2010 10:09:28 PM

dionysus

The freaking pope disagrees with you. That's right, the supposedly infallible leader of your entire religion accepts evolution. Now what?

11/24/2010 10:32:31 PM

Tiado

It's sad that blind faith will actually cause somebody to reject things that have actually been proven, just so they can sit content in their delusion of things that are unprovable.

I personally like proof.

11/25/2010 1:17:22 AM

Justanotheratheist

He's so close to getting the idea that all that original sin, Adam and Eve, sacrifice, etc etc stuff is meaningless crap. So close.....and yet so far.

Godless is good, John. It is much better than the alternative.


11/25/2010 2:27:30 AM

Prager

So close and yet so far.

11/25/2010 2:35:41 AM

Pup

Or you could reavaluate Genesis and assume that it was meant to be taken as a metaphor for man's inherent desire to sin. *shrugs*

11/25/2010 3:54:06 AM

WWWWolf

> are all based upon the theory of evolution and could not survive without it.

Slavery was endorsed in the Bible. Modern societies condemn slavery. How did Christianity respond to that?

You see, here's your small flaw in thinking: You're assuming there's some sort of a cornerstone of ideology, seemingly unrelated to everything the groups stand for, that you can just yank away and the whole thing will collapse. You assume that ideologies stand forever until you point out a small flaw.

Christians went "oh, let's not get slaves then. And on a second thought, crushing prisoners of war is pretty damn brutal and ungentlemanly, let's not do that either." They somehow prevailed. Why is that?

And on the other end, groups like neo-Nazis still exist even when practically everything they do have been exposed as bullshit that it is. Why is that?

You fail to account that people just aren't rational about their allegiances. (Or, in case of theory of evolution, perhaps they're fortunately rational enough to know you're not rational.)

So what makes you think these ideologies "could not survive" without some scientific theory that has nothing to do with what they actually do?

11/25/2010 4:16:19 AM

Raskolnikov

Catholics understand this pretty well. The official line is to maintain an uneasy truce with evolution. But the true hardcore catholics understand well that evolution is antithetic to their beliefs. Of course, in their minds, it's evolution that has to go, not their religion. Don't overestimate them either.

11/25/2010 4:33:54 AM



Let's forget that the Vatican has officially accepted the theory of evolution and says, anyway,that the story of Adam and Eve is a metaphore and should not be taken to the letter, what kind of religion relies on the existence of talking animals to survive?. Unbelievable.

11/25/2010 4:48:11 AM

whatever

I for one could not give a toss what the Vatican accepts or rejects. I'm just waiting for the moment when the Pope finally announces that Catholicism has been a hoax from day one, and the Vatican state has just been another great Italian swindle, existing for no other reason than to launder billions of dollars / Euros / whatever from deluded subjects and make some old bastard famous for a few years to act as a "respectable head figure" and give it some kind of credibility.

11/25/2010 3:22:11 PM

The Jamo

Hold on. Didn't Pope John Paul II publicly admit that the theory of evolution is a fact and can no longer be denied? I think he has, and last time I checked, he was the leader of your little club, Vennari.

11/25/2010 4:56:59 PM

Die Mensch-Maschine

Well, then, you haven't check in quite a while. Benedict XVI (or whatever he is called in English), or Joseph Ratzinger, never heard of him?

Also, I love how some of you falls for the exact same stuff than some of the fundies quoted here. Science and religion operates on completely different levels. The fact that you understand the former better than them fundies doesn't make the argument ”(religious stuff) wrong because (science stuff)" anymore valid than "(science stuff) wrong because (religious stuff)".

11/26/2010 2:40:17 AM

meh

i skimmed this website to see what hes going on about can anyone say DENIAL!! i only took a semester of biology and I still know more about evolution that this guy! which is sad cos i know jack squat!!

so to this guy I say READ A FUCKING BIOLOGY BOOK YOU NEAN..... actually neanderthals are smarter and it would be insult to them if i were to compare this guy to them .....hmmm any ideas people?

11/26/2010 3:58:21 AM

The_L

Sorry, John, but even the Vatican has chosen to see reason on this one.

11/26/2010 4:24:59 AM

SpukiKitty

QUOTE FROM #1229673
meh

"i skimmed this website to see what hes going on about can anyone say DENIAL!! i only took a semester of biology and I still know more about evolution that this guy! which is sad cos i know jack squat!!

so to this guy I say READ A FUCKING BIOLOGY BOOK YOU NEAN..... actually neanderthals are smarter and it would be insult to them if i were to compare this guy to them .....hmmm any ideas people?"


Well, some things to compare this guy to: A bowl of Tapioca, a sausage, pond scum, boogers, toe jam, a fart, an ameoba, crusty eyeball gunk, dust bunnies, worms, brussels sprouts....
I also get the feeling this guy's one of those super-traditionalist Catholic splinter groups that reject Vatican 2 and the Vatican itself. They're very Anti-Semetic & make the Pope look like a Hippie in comparision.

11/26/2010 9:49:33 AM

Arts_Myth

So let me see if I've got this right...

Evolution is bad because (you believe) it will cause the downfall of well-established and deeply-entrenched ideas and organizations (that you like).

Eradication of (the theory of) evolution is good because (you believe) it will cause the downfall of well-established and deeply-entrenched ideas and organizations (that you don't like).

Good to see that your argument is in no way superficial.

11/26/2010 2:18:53 PM

Raised By Horses

"Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist."

Yes! We finally got through to someo.. (reads rest of post)... oh.

Well, keep trying. You'll get there eventually. Maybe.

11/26/2010 6:43:43 PM

Neith

> > The utter incompatibility of Darwinian evolution and Sacred Scripture must be recognized.

Agreed.

> > If belief in Adam and Eve is destroyed, then our entire Catholic Faith falls to pieces.

Agreed.

> > Because, if evolution is true then Adam and Eve did not even exist.

Agreed.

> > If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there is no such thing as original sin.

Agreed.

> > If there's no such thing as original sin, there is no need to be redeemed from original sin.

Agreed.

> > If there is no need for a redeemer, then there is no need for the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity to become Man and die on the Cross for our sins.

Agreed

We know that evolution is true. Therefore, using your own logic, there is no trinity, no such thing as original sin, and no one was crucified and resurrected for our "sins". In fact, the very concept of "sin" was created by humans, and Jehovah/Yahweh/El/Elohim/Allah/Dios/God/etc does not, and never did, exist.

11/26/2010 7:28:23 PM

Neith

> > Why is evolution kept alive?

Because it's true.

> > Why are we not told that Darwinism is dead?

Because it's not.

> > That there is devastating evidence against the theory of evolution?

Because there isn't.

> > Because ___ if evolution is taken away, practically every major world view of our modern day will have nothing to support it and will come crashing to the ground.

Are we supposed to fill in that blank with a word?

If our knowledge of evolution is taken away, society would suffer greatly.

> > Modernism. Communism. Secular Humanism. Eugenics.

Why did you list words that have nothing to do with each other? Oh, I know. They are all human-developed concepts, just like religion. I think you forgot to make your point there, John V.

> > The New Age Movement and even the atheistic United Nations ___ are all based upon the theory of evolution and could not survive without it.

Two things are "all" based? The New Age Movement and UN are two things, and "all" isn't normally used in connection with only two things. Oh! Was that list supposed to be part of the above sentence? Please use proper punctuation next time, and stop expecting us to know which words to use in place of your blanks.

Sorry to tell you this, John, but you clearly have no grasp of reality. Evolution occurs in nature, and the theory of evolution describes how evolution occurs now, as well as in the past.

Humans did not invent evolution. We only describe what we know about it. All those groups and ideologies you mentioned have absolutely nothing to do with nature's way of bringing about biological diversity between and among species.

> > Take evolution away, and it would destroy the entire godless superstructure of our modern world in which all these erroneous ideas and institutions reign supreme.

You poor, paranoid, delusional man.

11/26/2010 7:31:06 PM

Orion

"Communism"

So the idea that the workers should own the means of production through representation by government (i.e. The government owns all businesses) would collapse without evolutionary theory?

11/27/2010 4:52:17 AM



The Catholic Church endorsed evolution back in the 1960s with Vatican II. I love it when the stump-jumper fundamentalists get apoplexy every time the Catholic Church reaffirms it's endorsement of evolution "without even getting our approval."

11/29/2010 5:41:57 PM



Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Darwinism is flawed - leaves certain things still to be explained. What I never understand is the next move that fundies invariably make: if evolutionary theory is wrong, the Genesis accounts must be literally true, like those are the only two alternatives. But it doesn't work like that, ever. If a scientific theory proves inadequate - which happens - it gets replaced by a more adequate scientific theory, not by a pre-scientific myth. There is and never could be any evidence for the idea that on the second day of creation God separated the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament and that's where the sky came from. These people just don't get it.

11/30/2010 1:26:47 AM

Adrian

@DevilsChaplain:
"I should also add that while most butt monkeys don't do anything to earn everyone's hate, this isn't the case for Headache."

IMO Headache is The Scrappy (Jerkass subtype), not a Butt Monkey. He also qualifies as a particularly virulent Single Issue Wonk of the Misplaced (anti) Nationalism type, and probably a Troll.

12/6/2010 3:06:18 PM



No, no, no... CHRISTIANITY IS NOT BASED ON GENESIS. I am a Christian, and a very avid Evolutionist. You know why so many people leave the faith? Because people like you portray things that were obviously visions and stories as absolute literal fact! NO. God is the creator, the founder of the laws of the universe, yet people like you say to ignore those laws for human interpretations that are inherently flawed! Creation isn't necessarily "POOF", because God is all-powerful, not of this universe and therefore not bound by our writings as flawed beings! Your reasoning is, by very nature circular.

"Humans are flawed. God says so in the Bible. Therefore he had HUMANS write the Bible. So the Bible is unflawed."

Concepts portrayed in the Bible have been filtered through humans. Humans are flawed. Believe what God says by reading between the lines, I say, that way you get the concepts without the bias... Because the writers had bias.

I love and believe in God. That is not dependant on human thought. Your ideal is, by saying that Christianity depends on enterpreting what was, most probably, a vision as literal fact. Who is the true beleiver here?

12/13/2010 6:14:24 PM
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