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Quote# 77776

[Justification for the mauling of 42 youths by bears in 2 Kings 2:23-24.]

The mauling of the forty-two youths is a mainstay of the atrocities lists. Once again, the context will show that this is not an unreasonable act at all. First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults. Second, the reference to “bald head” probably refers to Elisha’s shaved head in mourning that his mentor Elijah was taken from him (male pattern baldness was not common in ancient times, so this explanation is the most likely). So a group of at least 42 young men is jeering at Elisha’s bereavement, and “go on up” is probably a threatening wish that the same thing that happened to Elijah would happen to Elisha. Elisha is therefore protecting himself by cursing them (and God obviously agrees because he sends the bears). 42 of the young men are mauled (the word can refer to an injury as minor as a scratch). That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter.

Furthermore, in the ancient world, what were 42 young men doing idle? They should have been helping their families. They were dangerous juvenile delinquents. A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering.

Lita Cosner, Creation Ministries International 55 Comments [12/3/2010 5:54:26 AM]
Fundie Index: 80
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
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Doctor Whom

First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults.

Then why does the verse use the adjective "little" (and yes, it does appear in the original Hebrew)?

The rest is just idle speculation and bullshit. If you have to rewrite the Bible to believe in it, then you don't believe in the Bible.

12/3/2010 6:03:40 AM

LabRat

"(male pattern baldness was not common in ancient times, so this explanation is the most likely)"

Really? Where did you get this idea?

12/3/2010 6:12:29 AM



Because loitering and making fun of a mourning person warrants the summoning of bears. Of course.

12/3/2010 6:16:29 AM

Mister Spak

The context of feeding christians to lions will show that this was not an unreasonable act at all.

First, the christians openly declared that they were not loyal to the Roman state. It is completely reasonable for the state to then take legal action against them for treason. Second, lion food was expensive. Feeding (the Roman word 'feed' could refer to christians bringing the lions food to them) them with christians was solving two problems at once. That so many christians were fed to lions indicates that most christians were traitors to Rome.

A modern day equivalent would be christian clerics molesting children.

12/3/2010 6:19:15 AM



EDIT: THis is TGRwulf. Damnit why does my computer keep doing that?



"First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults"

And that makes it better HOW?

"Second, the reference to “bald head” probably refers to Elisha’s shaved head in mourning that his mentor Elijah was taken from him (male pattern baldness was not common in ancient times, so this explanation is the most likely)"

Citation fucking needed.

"So a group of at least 42 young men is jeering at Elisha’s bereavement, and “go on up” is probably a threatening wish that the same thing that happened to Elijah would happen to Elisha. Elisha is therefore protecting himself by cursing them (and God obviously agrees because he sends the bears)."

Again, citation needed.

"42 of the young men are mauled (the word can refer to an injury as minor as a scratch). That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter. "
Okay, first off, the DEFINITION of mauled basially means severe injuries. Second, I'd like to see you try and fight off a grizzly empty handed.

"Furthermore, in the ancient world, what were 42 young men doing idle? They should have been helping their families. They were dangerous juvenile delinquents. A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering."

Yeah, because regular teenagers NEVER goof off. Dumbass.

12/3/2010 6:32:34 AM

Fuzz

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.... oh, she's serious.

12/3/2010 6:45:33 AM

Xotan

"The mauling of the forty-two youths ...the context will show that this is not an unreasonable act at all. "

===By this reasoning neither was the Roman Arena.


"...the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults."

===Let's just say sentient 'people'.



"... the reference to “bald head” probably refers to Elisha’s shaved head in mourning that his mentor Elijah was taken from him..."


====The Bible enjoins that the hair shall not be cut, no?

"(male pattern baldness was not common in ancient times, so this explanation is the most likely)."

===Most unlikely unless you can come up with massive supporting evidence for your claim.


" 42 young men ..jeering Elisha’s bereavement,"

===Chapter and verse for this contention, please And Elisha cursed them! Surely a good thing to do! Evil in my book. It signifies hatred.

"That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter."

===Supposition. Evidence, please.

"Furthermore, in the ancient world, what were 42 young men doing idle? They should have been helping their families. "

===the Sabbath, perhaps? Or they may well have been quite young, or they may have finsihed their day's chores. I can make suppositions too!


"They were dangerous juvenile delinquents. A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering."


===What an imagination that you can come up so easily with the Bible behind the bible!


12/3/2010 6:49:24 AM

Canadia

A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering, and then you curse them in God's name and 42 bears fuck them up for you.

12/3/2010 7:03:35 AM

Doubting Thomas

I've never seen someone use the "lost in translation" defense of the bible so much in one paragraph. You know, where they claim that certain words in the bible didn't mean what they appear to mean because the translation could mean something else.

And nice way to blame the victims at the end. "They were a bunch of juvenile deliquents, so they deserved to be mauled." At any rate, you totally missed the point because you still can't see that making fun of a bald person just doesn't warrant being mauled (which means serious injuries, not just a scratch) by bears.

12/3/2010 7:05:55 AM

Szena

So what you're saying that what's wrong is not always wrong, that it's okay to maim people you don't like or think are being lazy.

And you guys claim that atheists use subjective morality.

12/3/2010 7:06:16 AM

breakerslion

About as logical as trying to catch rain in a sieve. Why don't you just go all out and claim that all 42 youths were possessed by Satan who was changing bodies at a rate of 7 youths/second, which was indistinguishable from simultaneous to such ancient and stupid people?

42 = 6 X 7 by the way. Ever notice how many numbers in the Babble are multiples of 6? Bad Greek translation of a base 6 number system? Star of David an abacus? No, couldn't be!

12/3/2010 7:39:03 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Who the hell is Lita Cosner and where has she been my whole life? I mean she is just bursting on to the scene here with a very high level of lunacy.

12/3/2010 7:44:32 AM

Pule Thamex

The Bible is a tome of vast, almost overpowering, evil, and was brought in to existence by powerful wizards intent on conquering the world. It is so full of insanity that people have been known to be violently ill in its presence. Indeed, if I have a bad stomach, I make certain that there are no Bibles within a hundred yards, just in case I throw-up.

The Bible is Satan's favourite tool, he uses it to make people tell lies and praise bad things. Did you know, that the Bible condones murder? Did you know that it also condones rape and human sacrifice? Although, I expect you had an idea that the Bible is the major justification for slavery and for genocide and for people being deliberately ignorant.

Did you know that the Bible is also the gibbering moron's Bible? Do you thieve, enslave, incite murder, persecute minorities, be as a knobhead, think your ignorance becomes you, hate atheists because you can't bullshit them (least of all convert them), act like a dick, detest education, abuse children, and are you an arrogant twerp and king-sized jerk? If you can answer yes to any or all of these, then you need a Bible. A Bible can show you how to do or be all these things to a greater level of professionalism. Why be an amateur evil bastard? Read the Bible and be a pro!

In these modern times, the Bible is making great inroads in the field of mental illness. If you suffer from any mental illness, you'll find that the Bible can reinforce your condition and make you feel a different person. Screaming lunacy, criminal madness, slobbering insanity, and grunting retardation are the perfect companions to the Bible.

Remember. Keep your children away from evil Bible wielding thugs.

Merry Christmas.

12/3/2010 7:49:50 AM

Doctor Whom

@Doubting Thomas

I've never seen someone use the "lost in translation" defense of the bible so much in one paragraph. You know, where they claim that certain words in the bible didn't mean what they appear to mean because the translation could mean something else.

Rather ironic for people who make such a big stink over Biblical literalism, no? It just goes to show you.

12/3/2010 7:56:48 AM



Gee, if God is so against the mocking of bereavement, why hasn't he sent bears against the Westboro Baptists?

Also, horrible attempt at justification. Just awful.

12/3/2010 7:57:04 AM

Spicyrocketsauce

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about this interpretation's tenuousness level?

12/3/2010 8:45:01 AM

Dr. Razark

@#1231702
"Gee, if God is so against the mocking of bereavement, why hasn't he sent bears against the Westboro Baptists?"

I like it! How many grizzlies do we need to bring?

12/3/2010 8:55:00 AM

WWWWolf

> First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults.

So? 42 people mauled is still 42 people mauled.

> Elisha is therefore protecting himself by cursing them (and God obviously agrees because he sends the bears).

So? One wrong doesn't justify another wrong, God's approval or not.

> 42 of the young men are mauled (the word can refer to an injury as minor as a scratch).

Because 42 people getting mildly scratched by God's cute teddybears obviously warrants mention in an epic tale for the ages.

Maybe, just maybe, they also didn't brutally crucify Jesus - propped him up really good and just used ropes instead of nails and just relatively humanely speared him when the day was over. Because, hey, the Bible doesn't tell you otherwise. There's no really solid evidence that he actually suffered on the Cross. I mean, everyone gets mildly tired when dragging a big-ass cross all around the town and stuff.

Speculation always works.

> That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter.

Or the youth were paralysed by the terror that is God's bears and could do nothing but get mauled by God's awesome bears of retribution.

Speculation *always* works.

> A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering.

So you're advocating bear-mauling young thugs in shady parts of town these days, too. Fascinating.

12/3/2010 9:07:21 AM

Philbert McAdamia

Where are the bears?
Don't you love bears?
Teenagers are hanging around the town
Mocking an old man, God hates the sound.
There should be bears.
Send in the bears.

12/3/2010 9:25:55 AM

Raised By Horses

I'm taking this in in small chunks. It's the only way to handle such nuclear amounts of stupidity.

"The mauling of the forty-two youths is a mainstay of the atrocities lists. Once again, the context will show that this is not an unreasonable act at all."

Oh, this should be good.

"First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults."

Which, of course, makes it all acceptable. It's not like teenagers or young adults would mind being mauled by bears.

"Second, the reference to “bald head” probably refers to Elisha’s shaved head in mourning that his mentor Elijah was taken from him (male pattern baldness was not common in ancient times, so this explanation is the most likely). So a group of at least 42 young men is jeering at Elisha’s bereavement, and “go on up” is probably a threatening wish that the same thing that happened to Elijah would happen to Elisha."

.....

"42 of the young men are mauled (the word can refer to an injury as minor as a scratch)."

No it fucking doesn't. And who ever heard of a bear attack resulting in a light scratch?

"That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter."

Or, being that they were children, were unable to fend off the rampaging bears.

"Furthermore, in the ancient world, what were 42 young men doing idle? They should have been helping their families. They were dangerous juvenile delinquents. A modern day equivalent would be finding one-self in a shady, abandoned part of town, and a gang of young thugs starts jeering."

Just... fuck you. Fuck you forever.

12/3/2010 9:32:14 AM

aaa

This has shown that you can't make an argument to save your own mother. Seriously, why do you think that teenagers just hanging around is somehow an offense large enough to put a squadron fucking bear after them? Do you even know what bears are capable of?

12/3/2010 10:07:39 AM

navelgazer

Thanks for clearing that up. Its just a matter of the correct emphasis.

Instead of:
God sent two BEARS to maul 42 youths because they teased Elijah about his bald spot.

Its:
God sent two bears to maul 42 YOUTHS because they teased Elijah about his bald spot.

I can feel the God-love now.

12/3/2010 10:42:11 AM

chaosof99

I don't know what's funnier:
* That she is actually trying to defend such an atrocious act that has literally no justification.
or
* That she more or less is driving a nail in the coffin of the old tirade of "the Bible is absolutely inerrant" (printed in their FAQ, btw) by trying to say that what is described is unreasonable and therefore wouldn't actually happen. Rather bizarre for someone who appears to be a literalist.

There is also the thing that by saying that the youths would have scattered, and thus what the Bible says happened is unreasonable to believe actually happened, she is more or less telling us that God is incompetent. This is also supported by the Bible (using NIV and KJV) saying "forty two of the boys", implying that it wasn't all of the youths involved. If she thinks that being mauled by a bear is a just punishment for making fun of a bald person, shouldn't God have punished all of them equally? Or if it deserves any punishment at all, wouldn't it have been better for God to us a better method of punishment than one that the person to be punished could easily escape from by sheer chance (i.e. being one of the kids that doesn't get mauled because they scattered)?

12/3/2010 10:51:31 AM

rw23

@Dr. Razark

> I like it! How many grizzlies do we need to bring?

All of them, just to make sure.

12/3/2010 11:08:42 AM

dionysus

"First of all, the word that is translated “youths” more accurately means teenagers or young adults"

Oh well then that makes it okay by ultra-conservative ideals. After all, once you're over 18 your only value to society is to die, usually as cannon fodder but I suppose being mauled by bears is a close second. However, excuse me for completely disagreeing and saying that it's every bit as immoral to send bears after teens and young adults as it to send them after children.

12/3/2010 11:25:33 AM
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