SpukiKitty

I'm a Theist who believes in a Higher Power & Afterlife....But I'm an Eclectic Wiccan and "God" & Creation are one in the same....and like the Atheists on this board....I, too think John Hanney is an idiot.

Though I admire Jesus as a great teacher, mystic, avatar, guru, reformer, mage, etc. I think the Bible has so much crap in it that it totally spoils the good parts. I think Abrahamic Faith types who still wish to "stay in the faith" should just practice the esoteric versions like Kabbalah, Gnosticism & Sufism...or else convert to just NeoPagan, New Age, Deism or "Spiritual But Not Religious".

If one's drawn to Agnosticism or full-blown Atheism, that's fine too.

Deeds...not Creeds...is what counts.

12/13/2010 8:46:45 AM

SpukiKitty

AUGH! DOUBLE POST-O-RAMA! My bad! =P

12/13/2010 8:47:54 AM

navelgazer

I agree...its indisputable..his noodlely appendage touches all.

12/13/2010 8:48:53 AM

Amanda

Evidence? There's evidence? When did this happen? Well, show it to me and I'll definitely give up my atheistic life. Boy, you think the Christians would have mentioned this evidence before. I can't wait to see it!

12/13/2010 8:54:50 AM

Dr. Razark

Seriously?

Has anyone EVER been converted by Pascal's Wager?

12/13/2010 9:08:27 AM

christian leftie

Of course, this argument misses that:
Scientific world-view =/= Atheism
Evidence of God =/= Faith

The typical fundie view of a deity so impotent that it is unable to obfuscate its own existence to encourage us to explore and have faith as taught in most religions.

12/13/2010 9:14:35 AM

JSS

"But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer amazing things would happen. It will be like gradually receiving your sight after being blind."

And many atheists and agnostics have read the bible before and approached God in prayer before. Then they were dissapointed in the results and became atheists and agnostics.

You do know about the fallacy in Pascal's Wager right?

12/13/2010 9:31:32 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Abundant evidence? You were serious about that?

12/13/2010 9:36:18 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

"Intelligent design is seen everywhere in the universe, from plant and animal life to the stars and galaxies. Ignore it if you choose, but it is there and demands an answer. The answer is not in evolution or the string theory but in the Bible."

How does reading the Bible begin to tell us how to cure cancer, or figure out how to build a fusion reactor? How does it begin to help us understand exactly how galaxy walls and filaments were able to form, or why they are likely the largest structures possible? What can it tell us about the theoretical (I know, I know. Theory is a dirty word to fundie simpletons) dark flow? Goddidit! is not an acceptable answer. It is pure laziness.

12/13/2010 9:39:46 AM

Justanotheratheist

Evidence? What fucking evidence? The bible, with its blatant contradictions and countless equally blatant errors?

Nice contradiction you've got going there, by the way. "Be an indepedent thinker with an open mind" - but take everything the bible says to be the truth. Don't you idiots ever listen to yourselves?

And believing in God just in case he exists doesn't exactly count as proper faith, does it?

12/13/2010 9:43:17 AM

Quantum Mechanic

What evidence?

12/13/2010 9:49:33 AM

Alleyprowler

Open-mindedness doesn't mean automatic belief. Quite the oopposite, actually. I doubt this person has read either Origin of Species or the bible.

12/13/2010 10:04:06 AM

WMDKitty

"But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible"

Cover to cover, man.

"and approach God in prayer"

I tried that, too.

"amazing things would happen."

Amazing? Only if a big, fat, "NOTHING HAPPENED" is "amazing". Brain? Still damaged. Body? Still fucked up. Life? Still a pile of shit.

I concluded that waiting around for a wish to come true is only good for wasting time and making excuses. If I wanted something, I'd have to do for myself, 'cuz "God" sure wasn't doing a damn thing...

12/13/2010 10:12:29 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Christians have no fear of atheists"

Then come argue the toss with us at FSTDT. If you have the cojones to do so, that is. >:D

"just concern for them."

Only you fundies do. And yet, the Amish, Quakers, Unitarian Universalists etc keep themselves to themselves, not forcing their beliefs down other peoples' throats. Because they know it's purely down to the individual's decision whether or not to 'believe'. They know they don't have the right to force others into their religion (indeed, doing so is complete anathema to them).

"There is a God and abundant evidence in nature and the universe to prove to any logical and open minded thinker that God exists."

The only possible way you can 'prove' to my satisfaction the existence of your so-called 'God' is to make him appear before me in hard, solid, physical form (and that's 'God' himself, not Jesus). Then he has to prove he is what he says he is via demonstrations of his power, again to my satisfaction (and if this means he has to do whatever I say in perpetuity, so be it).

Them's the terms, they're not up for negotiation. Take it or leave it.

"Intelligent design is seen everywhere in the universe, from plant and animal life to the stars and galaxies. Ignore it if you choose, but it is there and demands an answer. The answer is not in evolution or the string theory but in the Bible."

Kitzmiller vs. Dover says 'Intelligent Design'/Creationism is bollocks, evolution is fact. The law says so. The law says it, you must accept it (Romans 13:1-2), deal with it.

"Think of it this way.. if believers are wrong about God they have lost nothing but if they are right they have gained everything. If I were a betting man those would look like pretty good odds.

On the other hand, if atheists are right and there is no God and nothing but a vacuum after death, then they have neither lost or gained anything, but if they are wrong they have lost everything and face a terrible eternity. Not good odds."

Pascal's Wager says the odds aren't looking very good. For you.

"But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer amazing things would happen. It will be like gradually receiving your sight after being blind."

Or, to quote the late great Sci-Fi author Isaac Asimov:

'Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived'

"If anyone really wants to know if God exists I can only say put down Origin of the Species and pick up the Bible and start reading the Book of John to start with. You might also be greatly helped as I was by reading Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis on the side."

I've read your bible, and all I need for it to destroy it's own credibility, and therefore conclusively prove that a 'God' doesn't exist (and has never existed in the first place) is just one thing:

The concept of a 'talking snake'.

"Think for yourself, forget the status quo of atheistic thinking, and approach God directly. Be an independent thinker with an open mind and a real desire to know the truth and you will find it in the Bible. There is no hope or meaning for life anywhere else."

Andy Schaftafly, is that you?! Think for yourself, forget the status quo of fundieistic sheeple thinking, and approach reality directly. Be an independent thinker with an open mind and a real desire to know the facts and you will find it in the library/internet. You're born, and then you rot. In between the cord being cut and carking it, you live as interesting & fulfilling (certainly humanity-contributing) a life as you possibly can. You don't have any choice in the matter, so you might as well make the best of things. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. I wouldn't like to be killed/harmed, nor have my possessions stolen/damaged, so why should I do the same to others? Commit acts of gratuitous kindness. Be good for goodness' sake. That is the Meaning of Life.

No religion required. Dawkinsspeed.

Unfortunately, my observation over the years has been
” You can lead an atheist to evidence… but you can’t make him think”.

(*Facepalms*)

A definite case of:



@Lucilius

"When John Hanney says he sees evidence of itelligent design everywhere, what that really means is evidence of intelligence greater than his own."

Never mind Kitzmiller vs. Dover, John and his fundie ilk are by themselves proof that 'Intelligent Design' is a load of bollocks.

12/13/2010 10:32:08 AM

Anon

C.S. Lewis would not approve of Pascal's Wager (at least, not from my reading of his work).

12/13/2010 10:34:24 AM

Musicalbookworm

What condescending twaddle!

You do loose if you become one of the fundy Christians you live life according to the dictates of a badly mangled collection of ancient fairy tales instead of dealing with reality. It greatly amuses me when Christians tell atheists to think for themselves. It is thinking for oneself that often lead to some sort of non-Christian spiritual views.

12/13/2010 10:39:57 AM

Lucilius

When John Hanney says he sees evidence of itelligent design everywhere, what that really means is evidence of intelligence greater than his own.

And since Hanney is far dumber than the workings of random chance - he's even more wrong than blind guessing - he's sort of got a point. Atop his skull.

12/13/2010 10:53:52 AM

@John in Oz:

Hey! Don't knock masturbation! It's sex with someone I love.

12/13/2010 10:54:48 AM

Joe Mama

There is abundant evidence* that if fundies don't give me all their money, they will spontaneously burst into flames. Look at it this way... if you give me all your money then it's not likely to happen, but if you don't give me all your money, why take the chance? Looks like pretty good odds to me.

Frankly I wish Christians who use Pascal's Wager would realize that we just can't make ourselves believe in God. And empty threats of hell don't really help us want to believe in him, either.

And funny how Pascal's Wager only seems to convince Christians.

*As much as there is for God, and if fundies don't ever have to show their evidence, then neither do I.

12/13/2010 11:10:22 AM

Frank

"There is a God and abundant evidence in nature and the universe to prove to any logical and open minded thinker that God exists."

Which god did you have in mind?

12/13/2010 11:25:01 AM

Godbuster

"status quo of atheistic thinking"

the status quo of WHAT?

12/13/2010 11:25:16 AM

I did read the bible. It's one of the reasons why I'm not a christian anymore.

12/13/2010 11:51:04 AM

misshani

I think it's hilarious how he claims all kinds of evidence for God. But when people ask for that evidence, he makes excuses and runs away.

What a coward.

12/13/2010 11:54:01 AM

WWWWolf

> Intelligent design is seen everywhere in the universe, from plant and animal life to the stars and galaxies.

But there's more evidence everywhere you look that the designer was a damn moron, and with just a little bit of imagination, we would have been designed much better.

Why didn't the intelligent, almighty, omnipotent Designer make us into, say, some sort of immortal, indestructible, disembodied floating beings? You know, truly create us "in His image"?

You see, if we are able to see that humans have been "designed" damn badly, one might assume that an omnipotent designer would have spotted those problems long before us.

Intelligent Design is subject to not only the scientific criticism, but theological ones as well. Theologians failed to satisfactorily explain what exactly is the deal with the problem of evil. Intelligent Design forces them to explain what exactly is the deal with the problem of Incompetent Design.

> Think of it this way.. [babbles about Pascal's Wager]

Oh please. I liked the Cthulhu's Wager more.

> If anyone really wants to know if God exists I can only say put down Origin of the Species and pick up the Bible and start reading the Book of John to start with.

That's funny, because I've never read Origin of the Species. I have read large swaths of the Bible. There's enough material there to raise questions on its own.

> Unfortunately, my observation over the years has been ”You can lead an atheist to evidence… but you can’t make him think”.

That's not your observation. You've just taken a criticism that was leveled against you, and repurposed it.

12/13/2010 12:03:33 PM

Gambling Dan

Please humanity! I implore you! No more inventing Gods. There's only twenty-four hours in a day.

I'm a desperate man. I've lost my wife and family, my job, my home, my friends and my piece of mind. And I rarely sleep, there just isn't time. All my time is spent worshiping and kowtowing to hundreds of Gods, in the hope that I please the correct one for when I die, which will be soon by the look of it. I'm praying away my life and wasting away my hours in worship. Constant prayer is destroying me. I'm gambling that somewhere in that lot that I've got the winner.

Out of the hundreds of Gods that I take turns in worshiping, I hope the real one doesn't turn out to be a nasty bastard that wants to torture me for eternity, that's the sort of thing a deranged and psychopathic man would want to do, what a waste of prayer. Instead, I hope the actual one is free of mental illnesses, creative, intelligent and noble of spirit with a good sense of humour.

Anyway, I've wasted too much time not worshiping, so I'm off to pray to whose ever turn it is next. And don't forget, no more Gods. For the love of God, I beg you!

12/13/2010 12:27:29 PM