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#1234660
Neith
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg]Richard Dawkins answers the question, "What if you're wrong?"
12/13/2010 7:05:36 PM
#1234662
Hive
I'm sure the irony of your last sentence is lost on you.
12/13/2010 7:07:19 PM
#1234666
GigaGuess
Christians have no fear of atheists, just concern for them.
No, it seems a lot more like an opportunity to preach and pontificate on how pure you are to the unbelievers.
There is a God and abundant evidence in nature and the universe to prove to any logical and open minded thinker that God exists.
Such as? You guys seem to stop at Universe, therefore God!
Intelligent design is seen everywhere in the universe, from plant and animal life to the stars and galaxies.
Except the flora and fauna on Earth is very dynamic, always changing to fit the environment around it. The universe is a mutable, violent, chaotic place. What about this seems "intelligent" or "designed" to you?
Ignore it if you choose, but it is there and demands an answer. The answer is not in evolution or the string theory but in the Bible.
Goddidit is a pathetic answer because it only raises more questions. Why? How? Why did he feel the need to flood it? Or indeed, exile Adam and Eve in the first place? Why did he create parasites and disease, which don't discriminate between the sinners and the believers?
Think of it this way.. if believers are wrong about God they have lost nothing but if they are right they have gained everything. If I were a betting man those would look like pretty good odds.
Which God? Allah? Odin? Xenu? FSM? Every God you add to the pie, the worse your faction looks. And there are thousands. At least an unbeliever has the excuse that they didn't worship the wrong God, because they didn't worship any.
12/13/2010 7:18:40 PM
#1234668
GigaGuess
Part 2
On the other hand, if atheists are right and there is no God and nothing but a vacuum after death, then they have neither lost or gained anything, but if they are wrong they have lost everything and face a terrible eternity. Not good odds.
And if your God would be so petulant as to hide himself so fully and completely as to reduce acknowledgment of his presence to faith, and then punish those who have the audacity to not believe him, not even for a finite time, which would be brutish enough, BUT FOR ALL TIME, then he's not any more worthy of worship than a five year old in the throes of a temper tantrum.
But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer amazing things would happen. It will be like gradually receiving your sight after being blind.
Funny. You only find evidence of him after you believe in him. Tell you what, you give me your car, and when I drive over the city limits, you will see the pink unicorn standing on your house.
If anyone really wants to know if God exists I can only say put down Origin of the Species and pick up the Bible and start reading the Book of John to start with.
Actually, I would prefer hard evidence, before I start changing my life and beliefs to match yours.
12/13/2010 7:20:04 PM
#1234671
GigaGuess
Part 3
You might also be greatly helped as I was by reading Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis on the side.
Again, you talk a lot about reading about God, if you want me to deny who I am, and renounce everything I believe, you're gonna have to do better than a couple "Rah, Rah God" books.
Think for yourself, forget the status quo of atheistic thinking, and approach God directly.
You are rather presumptuous thinking we...or at the very least, I don't believe in your God because it's "cool" not to. That is not the case. I cannot reconcile the thought of a loving God, firstly having such a bloodthirsty attitude, demanding death for pretty much anyone from lippy children to homosexuals to entire nations. Oddly enough, commanding his followers to lead the slaughter, rather than doing his own dirty work. Secondly, I have a hard time understanding why an omniscient God gives a rats ass whether a woman wears pants, or a man loves another man.
Be an independent thinker with an open mind and a real desire to know the truth and you will find it in the Bible.
So...wait...be an independent thinker...and OBEY! Cognitive dissonance anyone?
There is no hope or meaning for life anywhere else.
There is exactly as much hope and meaning as you give it. No more, no less. If you believe te universe is a cold, meaningless void without God, then good for you. I find my worth within.
Unfortunately, my observation over the years has been
” You can lead an atheist to evidence… but you can’t make him think”.
You wouldn't know critical thinking if it jumped up and bit you in the ass.
12/13/2010 7:21:38 PM
#1234682
katie5000
As far as crazy screeds against atheists go, this one's actually a lot more polite than some of the other ones that turn up here. That said...
Christians have no fear of atheists, just concern for them.
Well, then, why is it that so many of you feel the need to rail so vociferously against them? It's said that people tend to hate what they fear, and the vitriol coming from your end sure is intense for a group of people who claim not to be scared of non-believers.
But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer...
A lot of atheists and agnostics are that way precisely because they've read the bible.
...forget the status quo of atheistic thinking...
The "status quo of atheistic thinking"? Are you mistaking society's general secularism for non-belief in God? Being secular =/= being atheist. There are many people who believe in God but keep it to themselves as a personal matter. They generally do not let their belief interfere with how they conduct themselves in public or how they do their jobs.
...you will find it in the Bible. There is no hope or meaning for life anywhere else.
If you were actually open-minded, you would not have said that.
12/13/2010 10:11:50 PM
#1234683
Raised By Horses
Okay, genius. Let's see that evidence.
...Hello?
12/13/2010 10:27:19 PM
#1234686
Alencon
Actually I've read, nay I've studied, the Bible in great detail. Like Issac Asimov said, it's the best argument for atheism that ever existed.
As for Pascal's Wager, I can no more force my intellect to accept an absurdity that I can force my eyes to change color. If I fake it, don't you think your deity could tell, or can he be fooled that easily?
12/13/2010 10:40:14 PM
#1234687
what???
Wow, so Pascal's Wager is still being thrown around? I thought you guys were smart enough to figure it out by now, that it doesn't work the way you think it does. And that last little quip, the evidence is in favor of no gods. Maybe you should trying thinking for once instead of throwing out rehashed fundie garbage.
12/13/2010 10:55:43 PM
#1234696
Freethink
Couple short comments to theists. Pascal's wager doesn't mean diddly, it's a ridiculous premise to begin with. Any logical thinker could see this. Secondly most atheists I know are very familiar with the bible, that is usually one of the main reasons for becoming an atheist.
12/14/2010 1:03:47 AM
#1234699
Clown
"But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer amazing things would happen. It will be like gradually receiving your sight after being blind."
My irony meter! Oh, G0d, shards got into my eyes!!!
12/14/2010 1:46:07 AM
#1234703
If it were true, you'd continue with your life and you'd be, logically, more concerned about your life and your actions than about those of the others. Since you don't do that, everybody(other Christians included)think that you have some kindergarden complex.
12/14/2010 3:02:43 AM
#1234706
Tolpuddle Martyr
STILL with Pascals Wager? Hasn't the evidence of you guys having your arses handed to you every time you pull that out caused you to think it might not be a deal changer? No, ah well...
12/14/2010 3:35:05 AM
#1234707
Pup
Pascal's wager auto-fail.
12/14/2010 4:06:49 AM
#1234722
Raised by Horses
"Maybe you should trying thinking for once instead of throwing out rehashed fundie garbage."
Quoth Lord Russell: People do not accept religion for logical reasons, but emotional ones.
12/14/2010 5:40:56 AM
#1234799
Pirate
Dressing up pascal's wager doesn't make it any less fallacious. It's not evidence for a god, it's an argument for why someone should believe in one. unfortunately for you that means that you need to try harder to convince us.
12/14/2010 9:30:20 AM
#1234810
Paler_Face
Think of it this way.. if believers are wrong about God they have lost nothing but if they are right they have gained everything. If I were a betting man those would look like pretty good odds.
On the other hand, if atheists are right and there is no God and nothing but a vacuum after death, then they have neither lost or gained anything, but if they are wrong they have lost everything and face a terrible eternity. Not good odds.
Pascal's FREAKIN' Wager. You Fail at making convincing arguments.
But if atheists or agnostics will only start to read the Bible and approach God in prayer amazing things would happen. It will be like gradually receiving your sight after being blind.
We did. That's a reason why a good many of us are atheists. We read the bible and saw it for the horrible tripe it really is. Now YOU read your bible cover to cover.
If anyone really wants to know if God exists I can only say put down Origin of the Species and pick up the Bible and start reading the Book of John to start with.
You start reading Numbers, or Deuteronomy, or Leviticus, or the mysogynistic shit Paul wrote in the new testament. Let's see you defend genocide and ethnic cleansing on a scale the Nazis would be proud of.
” You can lead an atheist to evidence… but you can’t make him think”.
If you think that Ray "Banana man" Comfort is insightful, then that says a lot about your state of mind.
12/14/2010 9:54:03 AM
#1234820
Caretaker
Like a buncha people, I was a Christian. I studied the Bible and prayed. And then I went to school, cultivated this amazing power called critical thought, looked at the bits of the Bible the nuns left out of religion classes and went...
...This makes absolutely no sense.
Incidentally, nobody ever answered me in prayer. If you get Good Vibes, it's just the god-spot in your brain. And if you hear voices, you're even more frightening than we already thought.
Be an independent thinker with an open mind and a real desire to know the truth
This applies to anyone brought up in a religious atmosphere. After study, education and the application of reason, they invariably come to the conclusion that the Bible's full of crap written by very, very fallible humans. Ones who couldn't count the number of legs on a fly.
Your pseudo-intelligence isn't annoying, though. It's just funny. Fundies who exhort us all to 'read the Bible!!!' have never, ever read it with the faintest modicum of intelligence, if they've read it at all. That's why you're such a delicious target for laughter, my dear.
12/14/2010 10:27:34 AM
#1234876
Pascal's Wager AND a quote from Ray Comfort's book? Wow, this guy is clueless.
12/14/2010 1:53:07 PM
#1234890
RIchStPete
Where exactly is that "evidence" Jonh? WE're waiting.......
12/14/2010 2:54:35 PM
#1234914
Amadaun
The only apologist work of Lewis' I could really respect was The Problem of Pain because he was dealing with a real problem out of himself while in serious emotional pain. He says some cool stuff.
Your betting/odds argument kind of showcases the problems with your whole mental world. I want to believe the truth for my own personal integrity and sense of self, because being a good and honest person is important to me. You're apparently in it for the goodies. Great moral example there.
12/14/2010 5:16:24 PM
#1234919
Philbert McAdamia
> Christians have no fear of atheists <
Shit. Christians fear everything.
12/14/2010 5:48:06 PM
#1234955
On the other hand, if atheists are right and there is no God and nothing but a vacuum after death, then they have neither lost or gained anything, but if they are wrong they have lost everything and face a terrible eternity. Not good odds.
<Yawn> Pascal's wager.
12/15/2010 12:00:19 AM
#1234956
If believers are wrong then they've fucked over the rest of us with their stupid little crusades and abortion clinic bombings and long, long sermons on Sundays best spent in bed and I guess God won't be punishing them in Hell for all eternity for that shit so yay for them I guess. What a bunch of assholes, you've only lost the chance for a sane civilization with your nonsense wrecking everything.
12/15/2010 12:02:32 AM
#1234964
The Jamo
Right, another fundie saying that there IS evidence and it's apparently everywhere, but again failing to mention what it is. apparently it's the sort of thing you only see once you're either drunk or have just been duped by some crazy cult.
As for not being able to make an atheist think, I'm sure you'll find that this goes for pretty much everyone on this planet, lunchbox. Perhaps you should try thinking for yourself... for yourself.
12/15/2010 12:32:48 AM
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