The leaders of Kenya's evangelical movement are pressuring the national museum to remove a world-famous collection of bones which conclusively depict the evolution of apes to humans.
The collection includes the most complete skeleton yet found of Homo erectus, the 1.7 million-year-old Turkana Boy unearthed by Dr Leakey's team in 1984 at Nariokotome, near Lake Turkana in northern Kenya. The museum also holds bones from several specimens of Australopithecus anamensis, believed to be the first hominid to walk upright, four million years ago. Together the artefacts amount to the clearest record yet discovered of the origins of Homo sapiens.
Bishop Bonifes Adoyo, the head of Christ is the Answer Ministries: "The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact. Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes, and we have grave concerns that the museum wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just one theory."
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Religious Person: "I don't believe in evolution because there is no evidence."
Sensible Person: "Here is the evidence right in front of you."
Religious Person: "How dare you! That is offensive. Making me look at something I disagree with is racist and infringes my right to practice my religion."
Religious Person: "I don't believe in evolution...."
Repeat till they start burning things.
If it makes you uncomfortable, then don't go there.
The sight of the Bocksten man made me very uncomfortable when I was a kid. I avoided looking at skeletons for years after that experience.
What I didn't do, was telling every museum to remove their skeletons from the displays, as the uncomfortableness was my problem and not the museums'.
AARRRRGGGHHHH!
So it's not enough that creationists deny the evidence of evolution without having seen it themselves, but even when shown the evidence firsthand in a public place, they are so offended that they demand it be removed, so that no one else has the opportunity to discover the truth. Typical fascist behavior. PLEASE tell me that the whoever in charge of this exhibit is not going to give in to their demands. This museum is probably one of the only facilities of higher education in that entire country, and since Kenya, unlike Uganda, is not yet a total lost cause, they need all the help they can get!
To paraphrase the bishop:
"Reality does not reflect our preciously held beliefs, THEREFORE REALITY IS WRONG!"
These people really need to read 'the Demon Haunted world' (did anyone get that I really like thiat book/)
"The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact. Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes, and we have grave concerns that the museum wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just one theory."
Normal people in Kenya are very uncomfortable that a bunch of superstitious primitives object to a museum containing facts, and want their mythology presented as fact.
Looks like it's not just American fundies who want to be willfully stupid and anti-science.
Someone needs to tell them that they'll remove the skeletons from the museum when they start teaching actual science in their churches.
Vast areas of Africa are undergoing rapid evangelization just right now. Fundamentalist christianity together with traditional superstitions make a very explosive mixture.
I can only hope that the museum has adequate security measures. There is imminent danger that these priceless treasures of human evolution get destroyed in an attack lead by "faithful followers of Christianity".
This has happened before, several times. Religious fundies tend to get aggressive, including physical attacks, against everything which they deem incompatible with their fairy-tales.
"The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact. Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes, and we have grave concerns that the museum wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just one theory."
This is your current location, Bish:
image
(which is also in Africa - the cradle of humanity - coincidentally).
What backs up facts - proving they are no longer 'theory' - is evidence. Facts destroy 'faith', pal. Deal with it.
We have the evidence. We win.
Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes, and we have grave concerns that the museum wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just one theory.
Bones aren't theories; they're evidence (that you'd conflate the two indicates, beyond shadow of doubt, that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about). You're not demanding the theory not be proposed; you're demanding that people shouldn't be allowed to look at the evidence or, presumably, even know that it exists for them to look at.
You're demanding the museum hide things whose existence would otherwise be patent, undeniable truth to anyone with functioning sense receptors to examine them.
You're thus demanding that they lie by omission.
Your own religion forbids lying.
Atheist/rationalist: "The sky is blue"
Christian fundy: "No, it's not"
A/r: "How can you say that? Just look at it"
Cf: "I don't care, my bible says it's greenish-red, so that's what it is, and if you don't believe me, I'm suing for discrimination"
Yeah, it's that stupid.
"The secular community here is very uncomfortable that Adoyo and his group want their doctrine presented as fact. The evidence indicates that we evolved from ancestral apes, and we have grave concerns that the church wants to enhance the prominence of something presented as fact which is just demonstrable nonsense."
Fixed.
@shunyata:
I hate to throw a Godwin, but your analogy reminded me that Hitler had something to say about people (artists in this case) who represented the sky as something other than blue. Needless to say, his thoughts didn't lead anywhere nice.
PS. Please don't take that as a criticism; I agree with you. It just popped into my head and I thought I'd share.
"Our doctrine is not that we evolved from apes,.."
True. Your doctrine is that your childish god made us out of mud pies. Yes, that's so much more intelligent and dignifying.
And I find fundamentalist beliefs offensive yet I'm not going out there trying to shut down megachurches, close creation 'museums', or remove fundamentalist billboards. And it's funny that you're so threatened by a skeleton just because it contradicts your dogma that you're going to deprive everyone else, including those who don't share your literalist beliefs, of this rare and wonderful artifact.
@Canadia and Breakerslion: I had the same thought. Based on that, what I think the museum should do is pack the bones up and send them somewhere (like England) where the fundies can't get to them to destroy them, and that they should do it as soon as possible. Not that I want the fundies to get what they want via their removal, but that I want to see those skeletons saved from destruction. >_>
Why are so many calling for the removal of these bones from Kenya, the place where they were discovered?
What makes Kenyan fundamentalists more likely to destroy the bones than other fundamentalists, Americans or example?
@Anon-e-moose
depicting Egypt as the cradle of humanity is incorrect. The Egyptians were really just the among the first humans that were forced into developing agriculture to sustain their population.
The actual cradle of humanity is more to the south and central Africa where the first primitive humans started moving as tool using groups.
In places like Kenya, the natives were still living mainly as hunter gather tribes with small contained populations when they were originally colonized, where they were kick started into the 16th century rather unimaginatively. However, being a native of Africa means that they are more likely to be a direct decedent of those very bones they fear.
The museum is not restricting its displays to any theory, it's restricting them to evidence. The evidence so far only suports one theory.
But you're not excluded; you're perfectly welcome to produce evidence that supports your point of view. Put on display a talking snake, talking donkey, river-dividing staff, a bush that burns without consuming itself, or photographs of the earth being flat, with an explanation of why the other photos have it wrong. I'd LOVE to see shit like that!
Books of campfire-stories for bronze-age primitives count as evidence- but only in the mythology section of the museum.
I know this is a lame as joke but I just can't resist
"de nile is not just a river in Egypt"
lame jokes aside I sincerely hope that they will be able to protect the fossils, smuggle them out if they have to
@Sylvana
"@Anon-e-moose
"depicting Egypt as the cradle of humanity is incorrect."
I was emphasising how Bonifes is in denial (see what I did there?!) about what he claims. The fact Egypt is a country in the continent of Africa - the cradle of humanity - is coincidental.
Destroying/Removing the bones won't matter, because the truth is out.
Try it. Let the world know how weak and pathetic your beliefs are.
Mabus is clearly one who travels by Short Bus. As proven by his spamming.
B&hammer is required, Distind.
Incidentally, Googling this 'Dennis Markuze', a.k.a. 'ma(short)bus' twat, I lol'd at this (from the Atheist Foundation forum):
http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?p=8644
image
Some say, that one of his eyes is a teste. And that once, preposterously, he had an affair with John Prescott. All we know is, he's called The Ma(short)bus!
X3
I'd like to know where Bishop Adoyo is learning his creationism. Is it home-grown, so to speak, or has he picked it up elsewhere? Here's part of a biographical note on the "Christ is the Answer" website:
[Bishop Adoyo] has also received theological training specializing in Biblical Studies from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago, USA. He is currently pursuing a PhD degree in Organizational Leadership from Regent University in Virginia ...
Why am not in the least surprised? And is he getting any funding support from creationist bodies in the USA? I'd put my mortgage on it.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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