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Quote# 79094

A littlle advice to young Atheists… A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems. God is, in a way, very unscrupulous. You may argue against God, but answer me this: if the universe seems so cruel and unjust, how did you get this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What are you comparing this universe with when you call it unjust? You will never know how much you believe something until it is a matter of life and death. If you think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness, and intellectual freedom you find it quite intolerable: think of it as a place of training and correction and it’s not so bad.

Leave A Mark, Leave a Mark 89 Comments [1/29/2011 4:51:51 AM]
Fundie Index: 81
Submitted By: SaynaTheSpiffy
WTF?! || meh
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bluejaysfan

Get a life!

1/29/2011 4:58:24 AM

HoverSponge

I read your bible a few times, every time I pick one up it reminds me why I am an athiest, thank your god for helping me remember why I don't believe in him.

1/29/2011 5:02:45 AM

John_in_Oz

Your advice is worth exactly what I paid for it.

1/29/2011 5:05:43 AM

solomongrundy

Atheist's don't 'think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness...'they don't think it's 'intended' for anything at all. It's just begging the question. Like referring to 'Creation' implies a Creator, saying the world is 'intended' for something implies an 'intender', a deity atheists by definition don't believe in.

1/29/2011 5:07:05 AM

jesus-face tortilla

re: "seems cruel and unjust"

most atheists don't attempt to make the universe conform to some arbitrary moral or aesthetic standard, since the facts of its observable reality defy that sort of exercise. this is a heap of false premise/non sequitur fail.

edit: beaten by solomongrundy, oh well.

1/29/2011 5:10:42 AM

KR

"A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems."

Those things are just the ones, that made me an atheist. So keep them around stalking me, just in case i might need some reminders, why there's no sense in religions.

1/29/2011 5:15:51 AM

The_L

Such a shiny, shiny mirror...

1/29/2011 5:19:10 AM

Doctor Whom

A littlle [sic] advice to young Christians… A young man ['cause we all know that the daughters of Eve don't count] who wishes to remain a sound Christian cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems. Reality is, in a way, very unscrupulous.

Fixed.

1/29/2011 5:23:52 AM

Viva

i've read the bible. it sucked.

1/29/2011 5:36:41 AM

Raskolnikov

What kind of training is getting born in the Soudan and dying a couple of days later from being underfed?

1/29/2011 5:57:58 AM

aaa

This is some of the laziest arguments i've read in a while. Is this supposed to convert somebody?

1/29/2011 5:58:00 AM

D Laurier

Young atheists tend to get that way after reading a few versions of the bible.
An atheist who wishes to remain an atheist, need only read every book he or she can find.


No atheist thinks the world is a place for our happiness. Indeed we know it is not.

1/29/2011 6:01:02 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

We do appreciate your concern, but we'll be just fine, living our lives & not worrying about invisible skyfairies.

1/29/2011 6:17:14 AM

TB Tabby

A little advice to young Atheists… A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems.

Why do Christians think we haven't read the Bible? Count me as one of those Christians who became an atheist AFTER reading the Bible. It helps that I didn't just read the feel-good passages your pastor pointed out to you. I read The Skeptic's Annotated Bible.

You may argue against God, but answer me this: if the universe seems so cruel and unjust, how did you get this idea of just and unjust?

From my sense of morality and the common values of my culture. I know stealing, murder, rape, etc. is wrong because I wouldn't like if someone did those things to me. I also understand that our society would crumble if we all acted like that. Humans are social animals. We live and survive in groups. A group that works together and gets along will survive more easily than a group that squabbles and ignores each other's needs.

You, on the other hand, say you get your morals from the Bible. In that case, you must be okay with slavery(Exodus 21:2-6), rape(Numbers 31:1-54), mass murder (1 Samuel 15:3), animal sacrifice (Leviticus 1-9), I could go on. If you "interpret" any of these verses, then you are no longer going by what the Bible says. You are using your own moral compass to judge which verses you think are just. That means you are capable of judging morality without a god.

What are you comparing this universe with when you call it unjust?

Generally we compare it with an ideal vision of the universe that we envision in out heads. But since that vision doesn't actually exist, we can only try and get as close to it as possible. Life isn't fair...but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be.

(to be continued)

1/29/2011 6:28:57 AM

TB Tabby

You will never know how much you believe something until it is a matter of life and death.

So you might change your beliefs under threat of death? Sounds like moral relativism to me. Unconscionable to you, but non-believers are unfettered by arbitrary moral absolutes. We have morals, but we also understand the concept of the catch-22.

If you think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness, and intellectual freedom you find it quite intolerable:

Good thing I don't think of it that way.

think of it as a place of training and correction and it’s not so bad.

Or we could think of it was a place where we live and survive, as well as a place where other people live and survive. It's the only world we've got, and the only life we've got. Instead of spending our whole lives waiting and hoping and praying for a promised paradise after we die, why don't we work together to make this world a better place for everyone?

1/29/2011 6:30:10 AM

nutbunny

There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems.

I imagine Wile E.Coyote receiving a package with an ACME KJV tome inside :-)


1/29/2011 6:36:21 AM

Ken

My former churchplace completely whitewashed our experience with the Bible. I didn't know who freaking Judas was until I saw Godspell.

So yeah. Atheist because I found out the truth about the Good Book.

1/29/2011 6:38:44 AM

Brianisha

Most atheists become atheist from reading the bible. Thanks for the warning though. Also, I know one guy that went from Atheist to Hindu, and my Husband went from Atheist to Buddhist/Pagan.

1/29/2011 6:38:58 AM

TGRwulf

Okay, then explain to me how different people have different morals... I'm waiting.

1/29/2011 6:54:30 AM

Canadiest

Which begs the question, and the answer to pepetual whiners about the unfairness of life:

Who told you life was fair?

Your religion insists there's a loving, just overseeer of all so it's YOUR faith that is shaken by reality. While Atheists can be taken aback by misery and inhumanity we have no delusions of magically perfect worlds, that's YOUR nonsense. Utopia is a concept, we know that

1/29/2011 7:11:10 AM

Canadia

"A littlle advice to young Atheists… A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere. Bibles laid open, millions of surprises, fine nets and stratagems."

Oh man, it's like Pitfall, but with religion.

1/29/2011 7:11:15 AM



An atheist doesn't think the universe is just or unjust. The universe merely is.

1/29/2011 7:33:40 AM

Horsefeathers

"God is, in a way, very unscrupulous."

Yes, well, I'll be sure to add that to my list of reasons that I don't worship your chosen deity.

"You may argue against God, but answer me this: if the universe seems so cruel and unjust, how did you get this idea of just and unjust?"

Society. Specifically, my particular society's implementation of the Golden Rule. You know, do unto others and so on.

"A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line."

How clever.

"What are you comparing this universe with when you call it unjust?"

I'm comparing the actions of others to how I would like to be treated in similar circumstances. The universe has nothing to do with it.

This is called empathy. Now, I'm sure you're completely unfamiliar with it but perhaps you should look it up.

"If you think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness, and intellectual freedom you find it quite intolerable: think of it as a place of training and correction and it’s not so bad."

Why the hell would I think either of those things?

1/29/2011 7:58:19 AM

Socob

Really? That argument again? The idea of just and unjust stems from imprinting, i.e. society, education, experiences etc. Well, that was easy.

1/29/2011 8:10:34 AM

David

I'm surprised that no one has noted that most of this is just copied verbatim from C. S. Lewis.

1/29/2011 8:31:14 AM
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