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"You must first of all present the information of both sides, and let the young people exercise their critical thinking skills."
So we should also present Islam as well as your religion? And that spaghetti religion too?
2/21/2011 8:06:47 AM
"Sorry, that is incorrect."
Don't exactly eep up on current events, do ya pal?
"You must first of all present the information of both sides, and let the young people exercise their critical thinking skills. Let them make up their own minds! I do!"
You don't. You don't even keep abreast of the news - least of all from around 5-6 years ago. Ever hear of KItzmiller vs. Dover? As a result of the 'information' (read: complete bollocks) submitted by the defence's best - in this case, Michael Behe - the Conservative Christian Judge John E. Jones III found...
...for the plaintiffs
Thus the precedent set. As a result, the teaching of 'I.D.' - and thus by definition Creationism - in all accredited educational establishments in the US, became illegal and unconstitutional.
"We don't live in a communist society (yet)"
Stop it, you're turning me on.
"but if we keep teaching students theories as though they are facts, we will certainly end up in a totalitarian situation."
According to Kitzmiller vs. Dover, Creationism is lies. Evolution is fact.
The law says so.
...oh, and what proves the more than infinite superiority of 'theories' (read: facts) over the alternative? Just two words: talking snake.
We have the evidence. The facts. We win.
2/21/2011 8:15:28 AM
This guy DOES have a point. I do think creationism should be taught, just not in Science class. If you're going to teach it, talk about it in History class in a "this is what Christians believe" way. For, you know, the same reason why teaching Greek mythology in History is a good idea.
2/21/2011 8:20:52 AM
Scientific theories are facts, and unfortunately, critical thinking skills need to be taught. (If they didn't need to be taught, then we wouldn't have fundies who believe everything they read in an old book from the pre-scientific era.)
2/21/2011 8:22:46 AM
You must first of all present the information of both sides, and let the young people exercise their critical thinking skills. Let them make up their own minds! I do!
So we must teach the Flying Spaghetti Monster, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, The Russell Teapot, and Last Thursdayism in religious class?
Even better: We must then teach Atheism in religious class, biblical bloodshed atrocities and contradictions, the incredible inhumanity of the concept "believe or go to hell", and why the story of Noah's Ark is a sheer impossibility.
Would you agree on that, "rockpilefarmer"?
2/21/2011 8:25:29 AM
When are these idiots going to get it that a scientific theory is not the same as saying something is a guess???
2/21/2011 8:29:17 AM
You know, European commentators, I would like to know how your countries managed to be spared from these creationists pundits who will never change their minds, regardless of evidence, and only want to indoctrinate children. I have never heard of anyone spouting this "Teach the Controversy" rhetoric in any European country, so how did you manage to get rid of most (but not all, obviously) of your fundies? We Americans would really like some pointers. (And can you tell us how long it took so I can estimate how old I'll be when the idiocy finally dies down over here?) Thank you.
2/21/2011 8:31:39 AM
It may sound strange, but one factor in todays' european irreligiosity may be that many european countries have a state church (England, Sweden etc.). Interestingly, Sweden and England are among the most atheist countries in Europe. Religion in these countries is viewed by many people as something boring, very old-fashioned, which must not be taken too seriously and in which only very old people are interested in.
In the USA, religious denominations compete heavily between each other for members. This leads directly to much more aggressive and outspoken behaviour to gain attraction.
Another factor: We had several devastating religious wars here in Europe. We know what desasters religious fanaticism can wreak.
My (satirical) tip for the USA: Choose one christian denomination (for example baptism), and make it your official state religion. Immediately, civil war will break out, because the mormons, methodists, presbyterians, etc. won't be amused at all. When the whole mess is over, you will have purged your country very efficiently from your fundies ;-) Afterwards, don't abandon your state religion. To organize something by the government is one of the surest ways to make people become disinterested in it ;-)
How long took this in Europe? Unfortunately, several hundred years :-(
2/21/2011 8:52:47 AM
Allegory for Jesus
Sorry, but when one of the "sides" is laughably, unforgivably fallacious and wrong, there is no need to give it a fair presentation.
2/21/2011 8:52:59 AM
I had a science teacher who did just that. He explained creation and evolution and how all of the evidence supports the latter. Be careful what you wish for.
2/21/2011 8:56:00 AM
Young people have no critical thinking skills. You can tell by the fact they wear their jeans low displaying the brand of their underpants.
A scientific theory is one step below a law. Gravity is the law of gravity.
The thing is evolution is a fact, much like gravity. Evolution is also a theory much like gravity.
2/21/2011 9:12:01 AM
I absolutely agree. We must therefore also teach Pastafarianism, as it is also a valid explanation and equal in all regards to creationism.
2/21/2011 9:42:49 AM
There's information for the creationist side? I would hope that when presented with a fairy tale, and a solid theory backed up by evidence, most kids would be smart enough to know the difference.
2/21/2011 9:48:02 AM
You are living in a totalitarian situation. You do not think for yourself: you let your pastor do your thinking, and dare you step out of line and your totalitarian church will disfellowship you in the twinkling of an eye.
There is no evidence for creationism except the Bible. The Bible was written by men who first started setting it down about 800 BCE. then, during the Babylonian Exile, it accreted mesopotamian myths and was finally put into a 'somewhat finished form by the pagan Emperor Constantine - he converted on his deathbed! But his purpose was to get his political message across, so the Book that Christians use as the New testament is suspect. Even more so at the time of the Reformation when scholarship in ancient languages was not a good as it might have been, and there were specific doctrinal messages to be manipulated into the text, especially by the Jacobean panel that produced the Queen James version - yes, James was gay! So much for the inerrancy of the Bible, quite apart from the sheer volume of factual errors it contains.
Anyone who dispassionately and fairly reads the Bible, and takes it as more than allegory and laws for a desert-living tribe, is ready for the looney bin, and would probably be a lot safer there.
As for young people, they need guidance and explanations from those who are capable of doing so in an intelligent and knowlegeable way, not by brain-washed morons.
2/21/2011 10:02:41 AM
Personally I'm in favour of Science classes teaching kids the facts about Creationism. But I don't think you'd like that.
2/21/2011 10:06:42 AM
"Well, I don't know much..."
You could have stopped right there.
2/21/2011 10:09:18 AM
All sides were presented and your silly myths were one of the first tossed out as being ridiculous.
2/21/2011 10:15:55 AM
the dude made a stupid comment that "creationism is solely a religious belief, therefore not to be taught in school..."
Funny, the Supreme Court has made the same "stupid comment" on numerous occasions. I guess Supreme Court justices are just dumber than rock pile farmers ...
2/21/2011 10:28:40 AM
God did it classifies it as RELIGIOUS BELIEF. The old "Christianism is not a religion" is not going to work here. And by the way, if you're so open minded, why not trying to learn about the woman, instead of being so elusive?
2/21/2011 10:34:20 AM
Tell you what rockpilefarmer, why don't you go first. I'll come to your church and teach the children there about Arianism, the belief that The Father created The Son and The Holy Spirit. In order to present the material fairly, I will do it with absolute seriousness, and make references to the bible to support the notion. For no extra charge, I will also point out the flaws in the notion of The Trinity. So, when would you like me to come?
Never? But you must first of all present the information of both sides, and let the young people exercise their critical thinking skills. Let them make up their own minds!
Or is that a lot of hooey?
2/21/2011 11:15:09 AM
Looking at both sides of the argument is usually wise policy...HOWEVER NOT IN THIS CASE. This & Ethnobigot/Homophobic pseudoscience is not up to debate. This is totally lost on our friend, Mr. warmemorialstadiumfarmer, here.
2/21/2011 11:26:00 AM
Yeah you know what happens when you "teach" both sides in a science class. The creationist teacher puts more attention on creationism instead of evolution.
2/21/2011 11:26:55 AM
I would rather learn the theory of evolution than the hypothesis of creationism.
2/21/2011 11:28:01 AM
But there aren't just "both" sides. Anyone can make up a story about how the universe got here. So there are potentially an infinite number of "sides". The difference between your "side" and the side of scientific thought is that your side comes from mostly one book, written a long time ago. The other "side" is the result of many years of impartial evaluation of evidence.
2/21/2011 11:44:03 AM
2/21/2011 12:18:28 PM
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