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Surely it should be "Evolution is a fact that is widely accepted". Saying that it is only accepted as a fact suggests that it may not be, when it's pretty clear that it is.
2/22/2011 3:03:38 AM
And, if after all this "teach the controversy" stuff, students still pick evolution, you'll be perfectly happy about it, right? I mean, it's not as if you're pushing TtC in order to ram Christianity down people's throats are you?
You promise you're not going to make another ad hoc attack about how teachers aren't presenting Creationism right?
2/22/2011 3:12:54 AM
There is no "information of both sides". There [i]is [/i ]. no "debate". There is scientific fact on one side and supernatural fantasy on the other.
2/22/2011 3:21:51 AM
We don't live in a theocratic society (yet) but if we keep teaching students religion as though they are facts, we will certainly end up in a totalitarian situation.
2/22/2011 4:17:23 AM
And how about the Thor theory of thunder, or that you can sail off the edge of the (flat) earth? Thor just hides his hammer _really_ well, and we don't hear about people sailing off the edge of the earth because dead people don't talk. We should fill our childrens' heads with so many debunked beliefs and contradictions that they have no choice but to make things up as they go. After all, who needs science to narrow down the possibilities? We were better off living in caves with 30-year life expectancies, anyways.
2/22/2011 4:24:27 AM
yes we must present both sides. so when do we teach that the earth is held on the back of 4 elephants standing on the back of a turtle?
2/22/2011 5:07:59 AM
I smell IDer.
2/22/2011 5:32:31 AM
@ Dennis Markuze:
If your group really won this challenge, then how come the giver of the prize has not said so? Wouldn't the people in charge, if they really gave you the money, announce to everyone that they now have evidence of the supernatural? Funny how that has not happened.
2/22/2011 6:58:03 AM
Really, we're just trying to be polite, because if we did teach them creationism alongside evolution, the kids would use their critical thinking skills and declare creationism for bullshit. Do you really want that? We're just trying to spare you people the embarrassment.
2/22/2011 7:19:21 AM
What do you mean "both sides"? If you teach "both sides", you have to teach all sides.
Therefore I propose that we teach Egyptian Creationism as well. Atum had a wank and in doing so created Shu and Tefnut, who in turn had incestuous sex and bore Geb (the earth) and Nut (the sky), hence the creation of the world. Geb and Nut had incestuous sex and bore Osiris, Isis, Set and Nephthys.
If Biblical Creationism is taught, this must also be taught.
2/22/2011 8:30:59 AM
Trust me, you don't want that. Putting creationism next to evolution in a fair and unbalanced side just shows how stupid it is. That's why the public schools that tried to teach creationism and evolution side by side first had to run a smear campaign against evolution, just so the students might see the two arguments as being mutually valid.
But this whole train of thought is insipid anyway. Reality isn't based on consensus and it isn't based on what we want to believe happened. Terrorists did 9/11, one lone guy assassinated JFK, and evolution is real.
2/22/2011 11:40:51 AM
Frankly, I'd rather see myself as a neurologically sophisticated, high IQ, mostly-hairless, talking, bipedal Great Ape than some hybrid of a mythical Dirt Guy & His Anthropormorphized Rib...fooled by a talking snake into eating a magical bit of produce.
People who take mythical allegory, parables and metaphor in their religious texts deserve to be committed in a very secure mental health facility.
2/22/2011 12:15:29 PM
I personally think creationism or intelligent design should be taught in schools, but only in order to demonstrate how scientific method actually works. Then let the kids make up their own minds.
2/22/2011 12:27:54 PM
@Markuze: yeah, that's convincing. You should probably spam it five, six hundred times just to be sure.
2/22/2011 1:57:57 PM
Actually, you're wrong. Evolution is viewed as both a fact and a Theory. It's easy to observe evolution, simply compare a child to his or her parents.
Evolution is simply "descent with modification" which is easily observed. It is also a Theory which addresses how those modifications occur, the consequences of those modifications and how those modifications led to the wide variety of life on planet earth.
2/22/2011 8:10:05 PM
Ok, where's your evidence? Come now, don't be shy. We've been asking this for a decade now, I think that's more than enough time
2/22/2011 8:25:09 PM
@speccy4i: as far as rockpilefarmer and those like him are concerned, the only proper way to teach creationism is if Christian young-earth creationism is taught in science classes...with nothing to compete with it.
2/22/2011 11:57:51 PM
And we can! But not in a science class. Of course, if we DID try to present ALL the evidence and information from both sides, we could cover creationism in a day, while evolution would take at LEAST the rest of the year. The truth can be complex like that.
2/23/2011 8:23:27 AM
'...we could cover creationism in a day'.
More like ten seconds...'The Bible says it, I believe it, case closed'.
Granted, sticking his fingers in his ears while screaming 'la,la,la-la-laaaaa, I caaannn't hear you!' might well occupy the fundie for the rest of his life though...
2/23/2011 5:07:25 PM
Evolution: 100% of the evidence
"My imaginary friend did it" : 0% of the evidence
Figures for stupid.
2/23/2011 5:13:00 PM
> Let them make up their own minds!
Okay, children! Time to make up your own minds! First, the evidence for the Theory of Evolution.
*immense body of evidence and cross-references built up for over a hundred years*
Now, the evidence for creationism.
2/24/2011 9:20:07 AM
That would be great if we actually TAUGHT critical thinking skills. Of course you would never allow that because that would kill religion in an instant.
2/24/2011 12:43:48 PM
Adrian"We don't live in a communist society (yet) but if we keep teaching students theories as though they are facts, we will certainly end up in a totalitarian situation."
Actually, my dear rockpilefarmer,
"And what about lightning? Telling me about charges and clouds and stuff? That's just communism if it is allowed to be stated unchallenged! Teach the controversy - THOR'S HAMMER CAUSES THUNDERSTORMS!
Don't be a pinko liberal communist Nazi totalitarian, oppressing my valid religious views! We need to teach Norse Paganism in every science class, right now, otherwise kids aren't hearing the whole story."
2/24/2011 3:19:18 PM
OK, here's the information possessed by both sides:
Evolution - 200 years worth of scientific research in multiple fields.
Creationism - a Bronze Age book.
It really doesn't take all that much critical thinking to work out which one is more likely to be true.
2/27/2011 3:52:06 PM
What a liar. You're just hoping that people will pick YOUR side even in the face of abundant evidence in favor of evolution.
2/27/2011 7:01:52 PM
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