Quote# 80489

The endgame of secular utopianism is always the same. It ends in the gulag, the guillotine, and the gas chamber. But the key point to remember is that however it ends, it always ends, because the Gates of Hell cannot and will not prevail.

Vox Day, Vox Popoli 68 Comments [4/7/2011 9:14:29 AM]
Fundie Index: 75

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Is this your revisionist History again?

4/7/2011 9:20:26 AM

Bong Hit Barbie

This guy has chronic diarrhea of the mouth it seems. He spews more shit than a manure spreader on a dairy farm in April.

4/7/2011 9:25:16 AM


Are you talking about Bill?

4/7/2011 9:25:54 AM

Doubting Thomas

There never has been a secular utopia, so your claim is false. The United States comes close, but fails because there are so many religious people screwing it up.

4/7/2011 9:39:54 AM


Well, I don't know whether there have been secular utopias ever in human history.

But there have been theocratic utopias. And they usually ended in the "holy" inquisition, the torture chamber, the censorship commission, and on the burning stake.

4/7/2011 9:43:27 AM

Raised by Horses

4/7/2011 9:48:28 AM



What you think of "secularism" is really just well disguised religion.



Politics in general...religion.

All problems are caused by religious faith...not secular reason. Don't be a stupidass moron vox day.

4/7/2011 9:51:39 AM


Um... How could a doorway through a fence -- even if hell is on the other side of said fence -- either win or lose? It's a fucking doorway!

4/7/2011 9:51:47 AM


What the fuck? You never gave us unbelievers a fucking chance! You always killed us before we could gain momentum!

Fuck you bastards, I really hate religion. I try and be tolerant, but you know what, I really hate it.

4/7/2011 9:53:52 AM

Professor M

There's always Aldous Huxley's utopian vision (in Island, his "positive" counterpart to Brave New World): it ends in sex, drugs, and hippie parrots. It's not quite secular, but it makes religion relatively individual and optional.

4/7/2011 10:00:43 AM

Doctor Whom

Quoted in that blog post:

Thirdly, the secular movement is but a variant of the utopian ambitions that have inspired man from the beginning of time.

Did you just use up another bottle of mirror polish? Fine, I'll go the store and get some more.

4/7/2011 10:00:47 AM


The problem here is utopia, not secularism. Utopias never work, as all people have different views of what a utopia is and will never agree on one unanimous utopia.

Almost all countries that still use the barbaric, medieval capital punishment are either religious countries or dictatorships (or both).

4/7/2011 10:07:27 AM


This argument is made a lot and is a bit of a strange one. If revolutions are bad in themselves, then the French revolution would never have happened and Europe would still be a network of feudal monarchies. To me, the destructive element in these regimes is simpler; the principle of hierarchical authority. That principle is and was embodied in the christian church, which also performed torture, genocide and mass executions. They only differed in scale and in the specific means employed, which were less efficient.

4/7/2011 10:50:35 AM




4/7/2011 10:52:24 AM


Sweden and the other highly secular nations would beg to differ with you. Communist dictatorships != atheism. They killed atheists just as readily when they too did not tow the party line. Note "Party", not "faith". Also, your gas chamber remark is disgusting and inaccurate.

Particularly given that Hitler was a Catholic and the Wehrmacht marched with belt buckles reading "Gott Mit Uns", or "God with us". Never forget.

4/7/2011 11:11:02 AM


Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade might be a morally questionable example to turn to, but it's worth noting that he was opposed to religion and the guillotine.

4/7/2011 11:16:59 AM


As for the gulag, guillotine and gas chamber remark, I'll leave Vox Day with the words of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia:

"Indeed, it seems to me that the more Christian a country is the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral. Abolition has taken its firmest hold in post–Christian Europe, and has least support in the church–going United States. I attribute that to the fact that, for the believing Christian, death is no big deal. Intentionally killing an innocent person is a big deal: it is a grave sin, which causes one to lose his soul. But losing this life, in exchange for the next? The Christian attitude is reflected in the words Robert Bolt’s play has Thomas More saying to the headsman: 'Friend, be not afraid of your office. You send me to God.' And when Cranmer asks whether he is sure of that, More replies, 'He will not refuse one who is so blithe to go to Him.' For the nonbeliever, on the other hand, to deprive a man of his life is to end his existence. What a horrible act!"

4/7/2011 11:19:58 AM

Brendan Rizzo

That isn't secular utopianism. That is communism. Get it right! (Oh wait, you think they're the same. Never mind...)

4/7/2011 11:44:18 AM


If you mean The Gates of Hell in Clifton, NJ, they will probably outlive you!


The endgame of the religious hierarchy has been running since 1453. Its death spasms have been responsible for 2 World Wars if you believe in the Divine Right of Kings. - Just die already!

4/7/2011 12:03:22 PM

Vox populi my ass. Vox stultus perhaps.

4/7/2011 12:18:56 PM


[It ends in the gulag, the guillotine, and the gas chamber.]

Funny how most of those were used by the religious.

4/7/2011 12:28:04 PM


Sweden and other very secular nations disagree with you.

On a side note: What exactly would be wrong with a secular 'utopia'?

4/7/2011 12:29:21 PM


Societal-scale morality from the guy who condones rape, ladies and gentlemen.

4/7/2011 12:30:06 PM


The U.S. has never been a utopia. However, if one were to pick a single word to describe the foundations of this country and it's history up to about 35 years ago it would be "secular".

4/7/2011 12:48:14 PM


We could always mention the "dream of a Christian state" but I suspect we all now it ends in the Inquisition.
Vox you are a fucking moron who has no clue about history. Why do you bother?

4/7/2011 1:11:42 PM

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