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Quote# 80564

[Excerpts from the article; click the link to read the rest]

Are You a Pro-Gay Bigot?

[...]

2. Do you participate in name-calling of those who object to homosexuality -- names like bigot, hate-monger, etc.?

3. Do you believe ‘gays’ have been deprived of the right to marry? Doesn’t pretty much everyone have the right to marry now -- to a person of the opposite sex?

[...]

5. Do you believe some people will just inevitably be homosexual, and that there’s a set percentage of the population that will always be ‘gay’, and that this won’t increase, even if a culture embraces ‘gay’ sex? Do you think homosexual experimentation could never become ‘chic’ and popular? Is there no risk for the people involved or our culture if this happens?

[...]

9. Do you believe that homosexuals are born that way? Do you refuse to consider the evidence against this claim? Have you ever looked at the connection between child sexual abuse and later homosexual attraction?

[...]

11. Are you quick to say “Judge not, lest you be judged” ( Matthew 7:1) and similar passages, without understanding the Christian theology behind it, and all the while being very judgmental yourself?

[...]

16. Do you believe it’s okay for thirteen- year- olds to learn at school that they have the right to have homosexual sex with each other? Do you close your ears when concerned parents are outraged? Would you call such parents “ignorant” and accuse them of “censorship”?

17. Do you believe that, after several thousand years where most cultures have prohibited homosexuality, only now the ‘real’ truth is emerging? Do you believe this is not an arrogant, narrow or immature position?

Life and Liberty Ministries, Life and Liberty Ministries 115 Comments [4/11/2011 3:31:14 AM]
Fundie Index: 118
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Amanda

2. Aren't you calling me a bigot?
3. Yes. Yes, but they should have the right to marry someone of the same sex if they want to.
5. Yes, yes, no, not necessarily, not sure, no.
9. Yes. What evidence? What connection?
11. I've never said that. I'm not big on bible quotes. I try not to judge, though.
16. When do thirteen year olds learn that? Of course I don't. Parents have the right to be concerned about what their children are being taught, especially if they're being told to have sex with each other, which does not happen.
17. So you're saying homosexuality is natural, since it's been practiced for thousands of years? In that case, I think it's great that we're beginning to become accepting of it.

4/11/2011 7:26:42 AM

Brendan Rizzo

My responses to this idiocy (including the parts that are not quoted here):

1. I believe in free speech for everyone, including conservatives and Christians.

2. Yes, but only because they are, and any psychologist will agree.

3. Isn't there a comic somewhere pointing out how stupid this line of reasoning is?

4. I do believe that ignorance plays a huge part in it, but to claim that those homophobes who don't actually call for the deaths of gays aren't doing it out of at least a misguided sense of compassion is unlikely.

5. Yes, I believe that some people will always be gay. No, I do not think that if homosexuality were to become completely accepted to the point of being a non-issue that suddenly everyone, gay or not, would be lining up to have gay sex. I am straight and have never entertained this notion even once, and I see no reason to believe that I am exceptional in this regard. Besides, aren't there European countries with no or little bigotry of any kind, and they still have people who are perfectly straight.

6. I actually have been informed of what gay people do. The fact that conservatives trot out the same old disproved arguments (such as the idea that only gays get AIDS, that they're all child molestors or were molested as children, that letting them serve in the armed forces would doom us all, etc.) despite knowing full well that they've been disproved, means that I am justified in dismissing them out of hand just like I am when creationists do the same. If they are not going to be honest, then they are not worth my time.

7. I believe that the suicides are caused by constant bigotry and homophobia... that is not necessarily the fault of conservatives, but show me one liberal as homophobic as the average conservative.

8. Considering all of the scientific research saying that such a thing is impossible, YES!

9. Again, all of the scientific research says that they are born that way (not that it matters as long as it does not harm anybody). Considering that the claim that gay=pedophile has long been debunked, WHY ARE YOU STILL REPEATING IT?!

10. I believe it is impossible to interpret the Bible in the "correct" way. No two people EVER arrive at the same conclusion after reading it. I would wonder though why the anti-homosexuality law is the only Levitical law that conservative Christians follow. (Yes, they even disobey the Ten Commandments when it suits them.) Considering that all their other Bible passages are taken out of context, they still have little Biblical justification for it. Again, I think some of these people are kind folks, just misguided. However, had they lived sixty years ago they would have been vitrolically racist, so I am still obligated to look down on them and oppose them politically.

11. No, because I actually do understand the theology behind it. It isn't that difficult to figure out.

12. I don't think that Jesus would have cared one way or the other about gayness. The other things in this only affect Christians, so non-Christians do not have to answer.

13. No, in fact I am aware of a few counter examples.

14. No. The reason for that is because by and large men are cocky and do not always wear condoms. The fact that lesbians have the lowest rate of HIV suggests it has to do with penetration more than anything.

15. See what I said before about them being misguided.

16. You completely misunderstand the point of sex ed.

17. This could easily backfire on you, as the whole point of science is to overturn the beliefs that went unquestioned for millenia. It could be used on literally everything we have learned about the natural world. Thus, it is irrelevant.

18. Do you believe that the Matthew Shepard murder was just a robbery? If you do then you know why so many states in the Bible Belt claim that those attacks are not hate crimes, even though they clearly are. I would be very concerned if trumped-up hate crimes charges were used to silence people, but since physical assault is clearly a crime that is not happening.

19. Yes, because the other two claims here are deliberate propaganda, and we know this because all knowledgeable people say so.

20. Absolutely not. If anything, it is the fundies who are doing that.

4/11/2011 7:40:53 AM

Brendan Rizzo

@ freako104:

Yes, yes they are. Bigots always do that. It never works.

4/11/2011 7:41:31 AM

TGRwulf

LOL, sooooooo much fail.

4/11/2011 7:55:28 AM

shykid

2. It's not "name calling" if it's the truth.

3. ...aaand that giant boom was the sound of irony meters everywhere exploding.

5. Pretty much. Why would you think otherwise, unless it was because heteronormative society oppresses your own latent homosexual urges? Just because you have them doesn't mean people who are actually straight do.

9. Yes, I do believe that sexual orientation is an innate characteristic, but I'd be willing to consider any reputable contrary evidence if it actually existed. (And, no, "Teh Bible sez so!" doesn't actually qualify as "reputable evidence", sorry.)

11. There is no other "Christian theology" to understand about that passage--it is what it is.

16. They probably shouldn't have that sex until they are older, but they should certainly be told they will have that right.

17. You fail anthropology forever.

4/11/2011 7:59:58 AM

Think of GTFO

People call you people bigots because you ARE. If you don't like it, try not to be bigoted.

4/11/2011 8:06:34 AM

Think of GTFO

People call you people bigots because you ARE. If you don't like it, try not to be bigoted.

4/11/2011 8:12:55 AM

Canadia

Damn, where have I seen every argument here before?

4/11/2011 8:16:53 AM

Doctor Whom

3. Do you believe race-mixers have been deprived of the right to marry? Doesn’t pretty much everyone have the right to marry now -- to a person of the same race?

11. Are you quick to quote the verses from Leviticus on lying with a man as with a woman, without understanding the Jewish and Christian theology behind them, and all the while treating the overwhelming bulk of the Old Testament as toilet paper?

4/11/2011 8:31:46 AM

Raised by Horses

@Brendan Rizzo

"9. Again, all of the scientific research says that they are born that way (not that it matters as long as it does not harm anybody). Considering that the claim that gay=pedophile has long been debunked, WHY ARE YOU STILL REPEATING IT?!"

Because they have nothing else to cling to, certainly no facts or evidence to back up their claims. Remember, we are dealing with people who seem to think that repeating something ad nauseum will somehow increase its truth value over time.

4/11/2011 8:32:08 AM

Eisenhorn

Well, I got some time to kill. All 20 question response. Also it got marked as spam for some reason so split at 10

1: When are you idiots going to get this? It's not either or with free speech

2: Well they use hurtful name calling toward homosexuals, it's only fair

3: Oh this again, we don't live in a one size fits all world you know

4: You know what? I do believe you are motivated by compassion, you believe that if you don't smack people with your bible until they go to your church they go to hell, which is an understandably bad thing. It's just that this compassion is painfully misguided with zero proof.

5: I believe if we increase our tolerance, yes more people will experiment, but no one will magically turn gay if suddenly there's more gay celebrities

6: In theory this is a loaded question, but it's loaded with blanks. What risks exactly? HIV? Is that going into the water table if I let gay men into my neighborhood? If that really happened I'd think about what you had to say

7: Homophobia is one of those things that can transcend politics, but we do need to do something about it.

8: This is one of those things where the turnaround rate is a deal breaker, so what if every man and woman you recruit walks out a heterosexual, how long do they keep up the act?

9: Show me the evidence, to both halves of your question

10: The bible is rife with contradiction, so anyone who takes "Don't be a dick" from the bible is good as much as I care

4/11/2011 8:36:39 AM

Eisenhorn

11: Are you implying there's a secret I have to learn that allows me to be a judgmental ass while not going against the bible?

12: These would be loaded questions to a believer I suppose. But even then, let he who is without sin and all that

13: Smart conservatives and jerk homosexuals exist. I acknowledge this

14: I wouldn't think it was a conservative plot if you didn't immediately think people getting a terminal illness was a victory for jesus

15: Wow congratulations, you made a real loaded question, doesn't that make you feel so good about yourself? Fine then, I don't seethe with hatred toward you, just shame that you will represent this species when the aliens find us

16: Better now than in their 20's. The best message we can send our teenagers is "Know the risks and have the sex you want to have only when you're ready" and it is ideal that they learn it when they're first getting the ability to.

17: Several my ass, it's only been one and a half thousand years

18: I would be concerned if hate crimes were used as an anti-speech weapon. But that is not happening and you know it. Unless you want to tell me your innocent little church is being persecuted

19: STD's don't get in the water table, nor do I get them from having a gay waiter or cashier, so no I don't think there are risks toward me or my children.

20: Wait, YOU are accusing ME of giving in to peer pressure? The religion that built its name setting people of other beliefs on fire? Think before you speak

4/11/2011 8:38:40 AM

dionysus

By the way, you can't just call any contrary position bigotry as bigotry has a very specific usage in the English language that being someone who is against a specific group because of who they are and believes that said group doesn't deserve to be treated equally. As such, there cannot, by definition, be a pro-gay bigot because they're SUPPORTING the rights of a particular group not working against them. That phrase is just as retarded as calling someone a "pro-racial equality bigot", in other words it makes absolutely no damn sense at all. You still have every right to be a bigot and flaunt your bigotry in public but you don't have a right to take action on it and deny a group of people their equality. You also don't have the right to not get your delicate feelings hurt when someone calls you out on your bullshit. To try to make yourself the victim while you're attacking others is disgusting, dishonest, and cowardly. I say it's cowardly because you're unwilling to face the social ramifications of your hatred.

4/11/2011 8:47:42 AM

Mapar

Oh, come on, it's not even funny anymore.

Really, as a European I have trouble fathoming how hate groups like this have any impact in the US.

In my country, the Archbishop is an anti-gay bigot, and generally a hyperconservative backwards thinker. The vast majority of people (believers and atheists alike) hate him for it.
Last week four cakes were thrown at his face. Not kidding.

4/11/2011 8:51:56 AM

Papabear

Do you participate in name-calling of those who object to African-Americans -- names like bigot, hate-monger, etc.?

STFU you moron.

4/11/2011 8:54:09 AM



Do you actually see that all those statements can apply virtually to everybody?

4/11/2011 8:57:40 AM

Strider_1

Clearly a closet case whom try to turn around the argument. Clearly someone whom thinks that being gay is something that os chosen. What really kills me, is that is from "Life and liberty ministries" whos agenda is to deny others to live their lives in freedom without harassment from shitkickers like him and his brainwashed sheeples.

Right!

Namecalling morons is not namecalling per se. It's just stating simple facts..

4/11/2011 9:13:43 AM

JSS

Okay, let's take a look and see how 'honest' I am...

1) No. Although I disagree with them I respect their right to free speech, well, not if they're protesting funerals or trying to start a genocide in a foreign country.
2) No, but I once saw a quiz online called "Are you a pro-gay Bigot?".
3) Yes, and everyone can marry someone of their own race. To hell with the race mixers!
4) No I have compassion, which is why I feel gays should live lonely, miserable lives without a soulmate who they truly love. It's also why I believe that if they do go for 'sin' they shouldn't have visitation rights. They should be deprived of all intimate love.
5) I believe as history shows, that although most of population is bisexual to various degrees, there will always be completely gay people and there will always be completely straight people. You can't force yourself to be attracted to a certain gender, even if it does become popular. If one could change with the fads there'd be no homosexually oriented people. Acceptance of homosexuality does not turn anyone gay.
6) No I listen to conservative arguments on gay issues. With a little thought they can be debunked, and some are just outright pathetic.
7) No I don't believe gay suicides can ignite from someone who frowns on gays. It's not like one of them secretly videotaped a gay person and spanned it across cyberspace.
8) Well I believe Jesus cures homosexuality. After one represses, and engages in a passionless relationship with the opposite gender, he or she becomes "a new creature" and struggles with his or her homosexual attractions for the rest of their life. From what I hear that's how it works.
9) I believe what the major psychological associations believe, that homosexuality has it's roots in biological factors as well, and that homosexuality isn't a direct product of child molestation. Being gay is not a choice.
10) The gay-friendly churches aren't my cup of tea because, well, I'm agnostic. I have seen and read the bible passages (spend some time on threads even slightly related to gays and how can you not), but I believe the bible has been translated many times and that God didn't drop the KJV from the sky. It was written by man.

(ct'd in part 2)

4/11/2011 9:20:53 AM

JSS

(Part 2)

11) Again, let's refer to the name of the quiz...
12) I sincerely believe Jesus wouldn't call gays 'human garbage' (-Anita Bryant), blame them for 9/11 and natural disasters, rile up countries with lies so they promote violence toward gays, or, say, write a book falsely slandering them as the cause of World War II. Actually, I don't think Jesus said anything specifically about homosexuality being immoral, nothing recorded that is.
13) No. I believe the sweeping stereotypes that all gay men are bag o' bones fairies and sex addicts. Keep them out of the military!
14) No, I haven't ignored that accurate assertion, and frankly I agree with what it says: that anal sex carries a high risk of transmission.
15) I don't immediately assume someone against homosexuality is hateful. I let them prove it themselves, and oftentimes they do, through lies and vitriolic slander while quoting the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' cliche.
16) I believe thirteen-year-olds shouldn't be indoctrinated with any political or religious bias, period (This of course means, no forcing prayer onto them). Unslanted facts should be given and critical thinking should be encouraged. Teens should not be encouraged to have sex, but they are entitled to accurate knowledge on the subject if curious.
17) No. Human history has always shown us the right way, even when promoting slavery, anti-sematism, female inferiority, racism, brutal slaughter and the like. Homosexuality is obviously some new phenomenon that has never been significantly practiced and accepted throughout history, and obviously we should always follow traditional teachings. It's not like we could ever enhance our lives through new ideas.
18) I believe what's been proven, that gays are more a target for hatred and crimes just like Jews and blacks, and that violence against gays is often from those fueled by the 'gay is evil' type of thinking, although yes, extra punishments for crimes against minorities is unnecessary.
19) No. I always believed all gays were disease spreading, child raping social tumors whose only goal is clearly to disentegrate humanity. Again, one's sexual orientation always determines addiction. Heterosexuals would never do that.
20) I do carry an appreciation for truth. I just believe you don't have a monopoly on it, as some of you arrogantly claim. When the day comes that I decide it's worth it to demonize an entire group because of the gender of whom they love I'll let you know.

How's that? Am I some pro-gay bigot or angry hate-monger or whatcha-call-it for much of my disagreement?

4/11/2011 9:21:49 AM

A Nonny Moose

Responding to all 20...

1. Free speech for all. However, free speech involves the right point out how ridiculous your speech is.

2. Not to their faces, no. But to be perfectly honest, that's what they are.

3. This argument didn't work when it was used against mixed-race marriages, and it doesn't work now.

4. They're motivated by fear and ignorance. Any misplaced "compassion" comes from that fear and ignorance.

5. Yes, Yes, Yes (it's genetic, you fools), No, Yes, there's no risk.

6. Yes. As somebody in the middle of the political spectrum, I tend to ignore both what the far right and the far left say.

7. Complete fault? No. Is there some fault? Yes. And you wouldn't be asking that question unless you felt a little twinge of guilt.

8. Considering how many of those "Ex-gays" are still secretly in homosexual relationships? Yes, I do dismiss it.

9. Of course they're born that way. Why on earth would somebody "choose" to be gay when they have to deal with such "loving" people as yourselves?

10. Off topic, probably, but why is it that, to fundamentalist Christians such as this, every passage is to be taken literally -- except for Revelations, which is to be interpreted?

4/11/2011 9:26:12 AM

A Nonny Moose

11. I understand the theology behind it. Do you?

12. Absolutely, Jesus would have 'accepted' homosexual acts. There is no hierarchy of sin. Sin is sin is sin. You focus on this one and ignore your own sins. I don't think that Jesus would be pleased about that.

13. No. However, you are mean and stupid.

14. [Citation Needed]

15. I've never liked the "how dare you be intolerant of my intolerance!" line of argument.

16. See 14. Something tells me you're arguing against something that doesn't happen.

17. That's the same line of argument that anti-semites use (they've been hated by cultures for 2000 years, there must be a reason!). It's the same line of argument used by most people with a bigoted stance against some group or another (women, blacks, etc.)

18. I'm actually against hate crime laws. I'd have no problem if it was part of the sentencing recommendation after conviction, but I don't like it being pre-conviction (because of the way it influences juries). That being said, I haven't seen a hate crimes law yet that criminalizes speech, and any one that tried would be dismissed under the First Amendment.

19. Yes. And there are no risks to children. If a man is sexually interested in young boys, he's not a homosexual, he's a pedophile. If a man is sexually interested in young girls, he's not a heterosexual, he's a pedophile. Words have meanings, but you apparently don't understand that.

20. Quite frankly, I don't care what you think or say, until you start passing laws that restrict the rights of other people.

4/11/2011 9:27:11 AM

John

2. Do you participate in name-calling of those who object to Negroes going to the same schools as whites -- names like bigot, hate-monger, etc.?

3. Do you believe Negroes have been deprived of the right to marry? Doesn’t pretty much everyone have the right to marry now -- to a person of the same race?

11. Are you quick to say “Judge not, lest you be judged” ( Matthew 7:1) and similar passages, without understanding the Christian theology behind it, and all the while being very judgmental yourself?

16. Do you believe it’s okay for thirteen- year-old Negroes to learn at school that they have the right to have sex with white girls? Do you close your ears when concerned parents are outraged? Would you call such parents "ignorant" and accuse them of "censorship?

17. Do you believe that, after several thousand years where most cultures have prohibited miscegenation, only now the "real" truth is emerging? Do you believe this is not an arrogant, narrow or immature position?

Same Sh*t, 50 years ago ...

4/11/2011 9:36:25 AM

Osiris

2. Oh you poor oppressed oppressors.
3. What if I made the law so that everyone had the right to practice religion. The religion of Islam. No other religion, just Islam. I don't think you'd like that.
5. Yes, and only people like you see a problem with this.
9. Yes. And unlike you I have looked at the evidence and seen that such a connection doesn't exist.
11. What is the theology behind it?
16. Sure. Because how many 13 year olds are actually going to have gay sex? Only the ones that are gay. We teach them that heterosexuality is okay, so let's spread the love.
17. Do you believe that after several thousand years where most cultures openly practiced some form of slavery blablablabla you get my drift.

4/11/2011 9:45:19 AM

Berny

Homosexuality is not a choice. Once you grasp that simple fact, you can begin to understand why you are a homophobic bigot and so were the people who wrote the Bible. That will be the beginning of your understanding. The rest will come when you realize that your sources are all bigoted homophobes and cannot be trusted.

4/11/2011 9:50:04 AM

colintron

Strangely, if you click the "Pregnant?" advert at the top-right, that now goes to what seems to be a mostly reasonable, pro-choice site.

4/11/2011 9:52:05 AM
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