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It is men who pervert the great scientific discoveries for use in killing.
It is also men who pervert religion for their own nefaroius ends:
"religion does not cause war"
Oh, no more please Mr. Wilde, I am bereft of ribs! [/sarcasm]
Besides, without religion...:
And we'd most probably be exploring our galaxy in awesome ships like this:
'Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too'
-John Lennon, "Imagine"
4/25/2011 7:25:22 AM
Would love to see that demonstration.
4/25/2011 9:13:07 AM
It's also responsible for the computer you're using. At least be consequent.
4/25/2011 10:06:55 AM
What planet are you on?
4/25/2011 2:07:26 PM
Vox Day: quite possibly the dumbest man on the internet.
4/25/2011 3:07:32 PM
Science relies on a method for gathering information. Information on its own has no intrinsic moral value. What you do with that information is up to you and you alone are responsible for it.
4/25/2011 7:13:51 PM
@Anon-e-moose: Let me play devil's advocate on that last point. The Chinese never had Christianity or any religion that violently suppressed scientific progress. In fact they independently invented several things from magnetic compasses to explosives before Europeans did.
So where are they're spaceships?
4/25/2011 10:19:46 PM
"#1281875 / John
Science doesn't tell people what to do. Religion does. Science just provides the tools. Religion provides the incentive and the rationalization. Science showed us how to build jets. It didn't tell people to fly them into the Twin Towers. Religion did that."
Just what I wanted to say, but more succinctly and to the point than I could have done.
Alfred Nobel was so horrified about what could be done with his invention - dynamite - that he created the Nobel prizes to counteract those atrocities.
Voxy, are you prepared to do something like that to counteract atrocities done in the name of Religion?
4/25/2011 11:42:32 PM
A perfectly sensible approach to take. Obviously, it is imperative that we lie as much as possible if we are to be staunch supporters of God. He will not be best pleased with those honest fools who insist on telling the truth. After all, it is clear, especially to those who know their Bible well, that God wants the profitable manufacture of weapons to be given the utmost consideration and advantage. God does so love a man who loves a penny. The inescapable conclusion is that war is a highly profitable, God pleasing, enterprise.
4/26/2011 12:01:08 AM
Fundies Make Me Sick
You are a demon and a retard, therefore nothing you say has any validity. Stop talking.
4/26/2011 6:28:16 PM
wtf? oh its vox day. moveing on.
4/27/2011 5:01:27 AM
"@Anon-e-moose: Let me play devil's advocate on that last point. The Chinese never had Christianity or any religion that violently suppressed scientific progress. In fact they independently invented several things from magnetic compasses to explosives before Europeans did.
So where are they're spaceships?"
Shenzhou 5 (which carried the first Taikonaut Yang Liwei):
Shenzhou 7 (with the first Chinese spacewalk, performed by Taikonaut Zhai Zhigang):
'A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step'
(*takes swig from bottle labelled 'Devil's Advocaat'
4/27/2011 8:42:34 AM
Uh, dude, medicine can save someone's life and that person can still later due an iatrogenic death. For instance, someone might have a disease that would have been fatal within a year without modern medicine. Let's say that with the help of modern medicine, that person manages to live for five years rather than one, but as the disease progresses, the doctor makes a miscalculation on the best method of treatment and the patient dies what would have technically been a preventable death. Never mind that modern medicine greatly improved and extended the patients life, because the doctor made a mistake that ultimately resulted in his death, you say that death was caused by science? This sort of thing isn't true of all iatrogenic deaths, but a lot of the time these deaths do happen when someone is fighting an already deadly disease and modern medicine has already improved and lengthened the patients life.
And while science certainly gives people technology, and technology allows humans to kill each other more efficiently, I can't see science or technology acting as a motivating factor for killing people. Ultimately, politics is what's responsible for most wars. And in some cases, religion and politics become mixed. Sometimes religion even overrides politics as the main motivating factor. The reasons for wars are usually complex. There are usually a lot of different factors. Religion is hardly the sole cause of war by any stretch of the imagination. But I can't say how anyone can possibly say that religion has never been a causal factor in war and cannot possibly be.
4/27/2011 3:12:42 PM
Wow, I don't think you've ever missed the point that seriously before. They were referring to the fact that China didn't get spaceships until after other countries did, when one would expect them to have gotten them in the Middle Ages if that graph were accurate, which it isn't. Let's try not to use stupid arguments, now shall we?
4/28/2011 3:18:03 PM
also @anon-e-moose: Seriously, anon. Two really stupid ideas you're clinging to here, and a further fail.
1) Christianity didn't fucking cause the dark ages. The collapse of Rome did that. Rome was already in the early stages of collapse when Constantine picked it up for his faction, anyway. Christianity preserved literacy and some scraps of culture in the monasteries; otherwise Europe would have had to restart from the actual bottom, and/or borrowing from their coreligionists around Byzantium in the East, who had no dark age.
2) More scholarly, but equally important: Rome wasn't likely to go any further, any more than China did. They had everything they needed. They were comfortable. Every great civilization has hit such a plateau. It probably took the ethos of infinite greed and infinite power over the natural world associated with Christianity to produce our (historically anomalous) modern attitudes toward infinite technological development.
3) The graph is wrong. The 'dark ages' ended shortly after 1000, and Western Europe (the only area even affected, you myopic ethnocentric twit) had reached the same level of technology Rome had had and begun to surpass it by 1250. That the graph has a straight line of nothing running from 500 to 1400--passing over, y'know, the advent of cannon kwa mfano--shows it was put together by someone with no grasp of history. So...just don't. If you don't know about a thing, don't try to sound superior about it.
It just makes you sound like the people we come here to mock. Bad history is no less foolish than bad physical science, except that it's less likely to kill you directly.
4/29/2011 9:18:32 AM
The Holocaust had jack shit to do with science. The Nazis didn't have any experimental evidence for their claims that Jews et al were corrupting the German state and people. They drew on pre-existing prejudices, which is the antithesis of the scientific method.
4/29/2011 11:37:33 AM
Vox, before I do the obvious and claim you've gone completely batshit, please throw your computer out a window. It's a product of science, after all. While you're at it, please cease eating anything but raw vegetables you've farmed yourself (Crop rotation, fertilizers, all products of science!), never see a doctor again, and go drink ditch water (Again; Chlorinated/fluoridated treated water. Science!).
Whirled Nut actually pays this idiot to spew? Gnnngh.
4/29/2011 12:26:57 PM
Just goes to prove that just because you have a high IQ, it doesn't mean you have any common sense.
Although I'm still wondering how this prick got into Mensa in the first place.
4/29/2011 4:56:36 PM
None of the things mentioned are the fault of "science", but of political ideology, political ambition, nationalist rivalry, and economic greed. Science is just a tool which can be used for evil or for good.
A case can be made, in fact, for blaming all these things (including the inquisitions and jihads)on hierarchical authoritarianism, often implicitly or explicitly religious in nature. That's aside from the abortion issue which must be included here as a category mistake.
4/29/2011 9:13:11 PM
So, due to your fear of iatrogenic death, you avoid going to a hospital if you break your leg, right?
What a surprise.
5/3/2011 3:48:24 PM
@Brendan Rizzo, Amadaun
Just replying in a humourous and ironic way, that's all.
Remember the ' ;) ' at the end of my post?
Besides, even the Chinese hadn't developed the exotic alloys, electronics or liquid-fuelled rockets required for space travel thousands of years ago.
Makes you think about how such technological leaps occurred in the 20th Century, though...!
Frozen Megatron in the first "Transformers" film spring to mind? Just a thought...!
5/4/2011 9:19:07 AM
Don't like science?
Stop using transistors to expose your breathtaking stupidity in public.
9/14/2011 7:56:20 AM
"... the number of Americans killed by medical science in the last ten years far exceeds the total number of Americans killed by war in U.S. history. If medical science can justly claim to have saved many lives, it must also take responsibility for the estimated 783,000 annual iatrogenic deaths it now causes every year."
Citation or GTFO!!!
6/8/2012 6:50:42 AM
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