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Quote# 80865

God is the only one who possesses intrinsic worth, and if he decides that the existence of evil will ultimately serve to glorify him, then the decree is by definition good and justified. One who thinks that God's glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity. A creature's worth can only be derived from and given by his creator, and in light of the purpose for which the creator made him. Since God is the sole standard of measurement, if he thinks something is justified, then it is by definition justified

Vincent Cheung, Vincent Cheung.com 125 Comments [4/27/2011 3:16:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 130
Submitted By: the_ignored
WTF?! || meh
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Some guy

No, just no.

4/27/2011 3:22:57 AM



Why does God need glory?

4/27/2011 3:25:42 AM

Anon2

A creature's worth can only be derived from and given by his creator, and in light of the purpose for which the creator made him. Since God is the sole standard of measurement, if he thinks something is justified, then it is by definition justified

And this is exactly the malicious mindset that countless toxic parents use in order to bully, control, and tyrannize their children.

4/27/2011 3:26:26 AM

David B.

Wow, you're like the poster child for special pleading!

4/27/2011 3:37:17 AM

From the frozen north, Death cometh

God is the only one who possesses intrinsic worth[...]

Umm... Ok, why is he the only one who has any value?

One who thinks that God's glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity.

And one who thinks he has no value, but by the grace of a megalomaniac super being, doesn't have a high enough opinion of himself.

A creature's worth can only be derived from and given by his creator, and in light of the purpose for which the creator made him.

And since we aren't indulging in any special pleading here, your god has no creator and hence no value either. Also, is the value of a child derived from the parents and what they wanted the child to do? And if so, don't I then have value, given to me by my parents?

Since God is the sole standard of measurement, if he thinks something is justified, then it is by definition justified

Since there is no evidence suggesting that any gods exist, we have to have another standard and that standard is our own moral judgement and the general zeitgeist.



4/27/2011 3:38:23 AM

TB Tabby

You'd think an all-knowing deity would be able to come up with a better explanation than "because I said so."

4/27/2011 3:41:29 AM

Olympiad

I love this Vincent Cheung! He is the first person to sensibly explain the reason for the devastating damage caused by my incurable, overactive immune system: God's ego-gluttony! Glory! All this time, my merciless intestinal horrors were actually poetic affirmations to my worthy Lord, who, for some reason, suffers from low self-esteem. A clean moral-boosting gas explosion at St. Jude's Children's Hospital might add a skip to his step.

4/27/2011 3:49:48 AM

Pule Thamex

Mental illness is the highest form of spiritual expression possible for a mere human. It allows closer emulation of the evil Yobbo in the skies. It allows greater justification for the practice of ones abhorrent hobbies. It allows one to play out ones role, as a filthy murdering twat, for instance, with the complete confidence that comes from knowing exactly what God likes and dislikes. Mental illness is also the perfect disease to have if you wish to declare that those who disagree with you have too high an opinion of themselves.

4/27/2011 3:54:48 AM

Blue_J

Yes, you've very nicely articulated the "divine command" horn of the Euthyphro dilemma. The difficulty, of course, is that a being who kills and tortures billions to get his rocks off isn't "good," per se, in any standard sense of the word.

Of course, if you're no longer wedded to the idea that God is "good," then you're at least consistent....

4/27/2011 3:55:41 AM

Raised by Horses

Not exactly practicing what you preach there, eh, Vince?

This world would certainly be a more glorious place without you in it.

4/27/2011 4:17:59 AM



"We are worthless playthings of a vengeful and petty being and it should be our pleasure to suffer at his command. Anyone who doesn't like this is an idiot and an egomaniac".


4/27/2011 4:21:50 AM

Gawd


Vince needs to be put on a government watch list ASAP.

4/27/2011 4:35:06 AM

Swede

First - prove that there was a creator
Second - prove that it was your particular god and not some other god.
It should be proven to every concerned party's satisfaction.

Every living organism has an intrinsic worth.

How do you know what God thinks?

4/27/2011 4:39:36 AM

gravematter

"One who thinks that God's glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity."

Actually I think that people who think that humans are the highest form of life possible, that we couldn't have evolved from apes because we're just so special, and that some magic man in the sky created us in his divine image, are the ones with too high an opinion of humanity.

4/27/2011 4:42:17 AM

Gypsin

future murderer? O.o

4/27/2011 4:50:56 AM

The_L

"God is the only one who possesses intrinsic worth"

This is where you started failing.

" One who thinks that God's glory is not worth the death and suffering of billions of people has too high an opinion of himself and humanity."

This is where you turned a hard right onto Sociopath Lane.

"Since God is the sole standard of measurement, if he thinks something is justified, then it is by definition justified."

This is where you proved that you would torture and kill people and generally create hell on Earth if somebody told you that God wanted it. You would have fit in quite nicely at Nuremburg.

4/27/2011 4:56:06 AM

Doctor Whom

Our abusive parent, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

4/27/2011 5:03:35 AM

D Laurier

Vincent wants us to wallow in self hatred, and to cower in fear.




No thankyou.

4/27/2011 5:14:09 AM

CohibaMan

A god who is worth the death and suffering of billions of people would never demand such a thing. If such a god did exist, the devil would be right to rebel against him and any moral individual would follow that devil to the depths of hell rather than be beholden to such a monster. And I say that as someone who does believe in God -- but I certainly don't believe in yours.

As an aside, Vincent fails theologically, as do most fundamentalist Christians. Traditionally, the idea that human beings are created in the image of God is much deeper than the silly idea that we somehow physically look like God. The Hebrew letters that make up the name of God (Yod-Heh-Vau-Heh), when stacked top-to-bottom, look like a human being - head, arms, torso, legs. The implication is that there is something within human beings that is a spark of the divine -- a reflection of God. Man is created in the image of God in exactly the same way that a child is created in the image of his parents. This has always been a theme in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic mysticism (as well as in Eastern religions, of course).

If God has infinite intrinsic worth, so do human beings. That fact has always been inconvenient to fundamentalists of all stripes because it conflicts with the drive for the raw power that requires others to be either sheep or sacrifices.

4/27/2011 5:22:27 AM

Mister Spak

Did you just claim good is evil?

4/27/2011 5:31:57 AM

Deepfriedice

Actually I'm reading his pdf and it all seems rather well done until about halfway through page five.

Then it falls into a pit of rabies, but still...

4/27/2011 5:34:51 AM

chaosof99

How about "No. Fuck you!"?

Other than that:
If god really exists, and he is the "sole standard of measurement", why does he require the death of his creation to glorify himself? Wouldn't he just have to consider himself gloriful to be gloriful?

4/27/2011 5:35:49 AM

Canadia

So are these the mental gymnastics you have to engage in to still consider your God a good guy? Yeah, no, you can keep doing those by yourself, not buying it.

4/27/2011 5:37:18 AM

TGRwulf

More proof that you guys worship a monster.

4/27/2011 5:57:33 AM

dionysus

Argument distilled: "Because god says so". For example, why is god the only one with any worth? Because he says he is. Why should we commit genocide? Because god says so. Why is he exempt from any moral judgements? Because he fucking says so. Never mind that there's no evidence that god ever said anything and that the Bile was most likely written entirely from the imagination of the ancient Hebrews.

4/27/2011 6:01:05 AM
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