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Vegan (as I understand it) means no meat, no dairy, no eggs! (Yeah, we kinda look down on our ovo-lacto-vegetarian friends :lol:)
Trust me, you don't need eggs or butter to make good cookies! Oil works great and applesauce makes a great egg replacer (or banana in muffins) A big plus is, the kids can eat the cookie dough and I don't have to worry about salmonella and such ...
4/28/2011 7:43:37 AM
4/28/2011 7:45:21 AM
4/28/2011 7:45:23 AM
humans =/= animals
4/28/2011 7:56:14 AM
While I certainly don't condone Bea's comparison of meat consumption with rape and pedophilia, I must admit that I do take issue with some of comments made here.
Yes, the human body is certainly able to effectively metabolise meat products - although one could reasonably argue, not in the quantities typically found in a Western diet.
However, with a little due attention, most people are able to subsist entirely on a non-meat diet. The difference between humans and other animals is that we have the ability to freely and rationally exercise our conscience. Speaking for myself, in view of the fact that I can choose to live without meat, I believe it follows that I should do so.
There are two key moral factors behind my decision. Firstly, it prevents unnecessary animal suffering. Comparisons with what occurs in the wild are, in my view, irrelevant, as the human animal is thoroughly domesticated and can obtain all the nutrients it requires from the shelves of the local supermarket. Secondly are the environmental concerns - it is a far more efficient means of food production to grow crops for direct human consumption rather than for livestock feed. The environmental impact of Western dietary habits is significant, particularly in terms of water consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.
I recognise that meat consumption remains the norm in our society, and I am certainly not one to start pontificating at the dinner table. On the contrary, on more than a few occasions I have found myself being asked to justify my vegetarianism. This does get rather tiresome after a while. Can't we just agree to respect each other's decision, even if we don't agree with it?
Incidentally, it would appear that I need to point out that vegetarianism and veganism are merely dietary practices. Nothing more. They are not, in themselves, religious or political movements. In fact, they do not even necessarily indicate a concern for animal welfare (although, of course, this is usually the case).
4/28/2011 8:00:32 AM
4/28/2011 8:21:15 AM
If you thought Veganism was bad enough, have you heard of Fruitarians
Fruitarianism involves the practice of following a diet that includes fruits, nuts and seeds, without animal products, vegetables and grains
So not just carrots, broccoli etc, but granola and bread is out. In a documentary on extreme lifestyles I watched once, it mentioned Fruitarians (as a subset of vegetarianism)- but in this case, an example of an even more extreme version of such: a man who will only
eat fruit that has fallen naturally from trees, and not picked from the branch/vine etc.
Kinda reinforces my attitude to the old saying:
'I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain, just to eat celery!'
Two words: Bacon sarnie.
One of my role models, film reviewer Mark Kermode:
Is a self-acknowledged Pesco
-vegetarian, as in he does
eat fish. His attitude?:
'If fish can't be bothered to evolve to live outside the oceans, then they deserve to die.'
(he also keeps chickens as pets; he eats their unfertilised
eggs, as well as other dairy products)
4/28/2011 8:25:27 AM
Ah yes veganism. The end result of a society so decedent and prosperous that it can support niche diets like yours, since now every meal is not a hard won victory against a Smilodon. Tell you what, you go down to the Neur people in the Sudan or Inuit hunters in Northern Canada and tell them that their whole way of life is wrong and immoral because they need to use and consume animals in order to survive. I fucking dare you you self-righteous cunt.
4/28/2011 8:37:11 AM
@ Anon-e-moose: You think that's bad? Try [html="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia"]Breatharianism[/html] on for size. They claim to require little to no food whatsoever. One prominent practitioner claims that her DNA has expanded from 2 strands to 12, in order to "absorb more hydrogen".
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to eat some meat.
Edit, how do you get links to work here? ._.
4/28/2011 8:51:57 AM
I'm all for buying a few buckets of KFC, parking just off her property line, and sharing them with a few friends, just to hear her rant and rave impotently as we consume the poor, innocent chickens...anyone else in? :p
4/28/2011 8:54:44 AM
@ KittyKaboom: "Get over yourself..."
4/28/2011 9:01:11 AM
"I respect that you don't eat meat. Please respect that I don't eat fake meat." --Raven
4/28/2011 9:07:37 AM
I agree with BugsyPal. I'm a vegetarian for the same reasons, and I personally believe that at some point in the future eating meat will be looked upon as savage or barbarous. Of course, the alternatives will be better, enabling everyone to get the nutrients they need, as not everyone is able to sustain a vegetarian diet and remain healthy. But this sort of mad over-the-top comment really does not further the cause of animal-rights or veganism.
4/28/2011 9:15:36 AM
that dutch guy
sorry, not gonna happen. people have been eating meat since they could get their grubby little paws on it, and they are not going to stop. though i have to agree, a lot of western people are overdoing it.
btw, while this OP is an idiot with the typical fundie rambling, this isnt really a fundamentally cristian statement. so not really something for this site.
4/28/2011 9:49:46 AM
Arguing that it occurs in nature is not a good strategy. However, I dislike people who refer to meat eating as "savage or barbarous". These are animals raised, bred, and slaughtered solely for human consumption. The only differences between a cow and a crop of corn are that one is far more closely related, and yes, the other is more efficient.
We're raised on this magical notion that animals have thoughts and feelings like our own, thanks to Disney making them all talk. They don't. Quit imagining that the cow I am eating had human thoughts, feelings, a family, or dreams for its future. It didn't. If slaughter is done correctly, the animal experiences very little pain.
So at the end of the day, the argument will come down to taste, and debating that is basically futile.
On another note, this is appropriate here for one reason. It demonstrates that even if suddenly religion vanished from the earth, people would still have unwarranted reasons to feel superior to others.
4/28/2011 9:50:51 AM
Something tells me that Bea hasn't heard that animals eat each other, too...
Besides, humans are omnivores. We are designed to eat meat as well as plants. (I mean, we have canines, ffs.) That's why vegans have to take dietary supplements left & right to make up for the nutrients their bodies don't get otherwise.
I'm not bashing vegans; it's their choice, and some of their recipes are pretty tasty. But when you become militant about it, you're less a vegan and more a veganazi (as my vegetarian friends have dubbed them).
EDIT: @that dutch guy
We don't just target Christian fundies, and being fundie is not a strictly Christian thing. In fact, we try to include non-Christian quotes whenever we can.
4/28/2011 10:10:52 AM
Mankind didn't evolve to where it is eating nothing but plants. After all, you don't have to be terribly sentient to sneak up on a blade of grass.
Equating the eating of meat to rape and pedophilia is the kind of nonsense I expect from assholes like PETA. If that suits you, Bea, then you're in good company.
Have a nice day and leave my fucking hamburger alone.
4/28/2011 10:10:55 AM
Carnivores may murder animals, but they don't generally rape them.
It's an unfortunate consequence of lacking photosynthesis that we need to kill something else in order to eat.
4/28/2011 10:15:19 AM
Pfft. If they're not meant to be eaten, then why are they made of meat (AKA "food", AKA "good eatin'")?
4/28/2011 10:15:25 AM
I hate hippies!
4/28/2011 10:24:53 AM
What's with all these jackasses saying "we're omnivores, deal with it"? I evolved thumbs and the capacity to create and wield tools, does that mean that I should stab people to death with a spear every chance I get? I am biologically compelled to breed, does that mean I should rape?
What about religion? Religion has been around since the very beginning, like carnivorism. Does that suggest to you that religion has authority, that it makes more sense, than no religion?
Just stop being so fucking reactionary.
4/28/2011 10:24:58 AM
I don't think that would deter me from my beef jerky.
4/28/2011 10:57:09 AM
If we ever quit killing animals for food, I believe it will be because someone came up with a practical, efficient way to grow meat on its own. Yes, it perfectly possible to go without meat, as thousands of vegetarians and vegans demonstrate, but it's a little unreasonable to think the entire globe is just going to break with their natural food source because you think they should.
4/28/2011 11:03:49 AM
I don't care what other people eat as long as they mind their own business about what I eat.
4/28/2011 11:07:39 AM
Humans are omnivorous, and while science has gone a long way towards providing alternatives to the protein we get from meat that our bodies so desperately need, there's no replacing the real thing asshole.
We're apex predators, we're doing what we evolved to do and I'm sick and tired of apologizing for that to you Vegans.
Besides, Bacon is delicious, so fuck you.
4/28/2011 11:13:48 AM
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